208 GR Hornady ELD Match ladder test Pics included.

Shooter937

Shooter937

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So after working on some 168 and 178 BTHP loads for this savage , I wanted to make use of a heavier load for more reliable 800-1000m shooting... I also wanted to try something new , these ELD projectiles fit the bill!

Here is a look at the setup , it's a Savage 10ba stealth in .308 20" barrel, vortex rings , vortex 20moa rail , and you guessed it Vortex Pst EBR-1 optic using a Harris 3/9 S BI-pod.

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To work up the load I decided to use the max load drop down a few grains and work my way back up 0.25 grains per test load, all in all I made a total of 30 rounds and lots of five cartridges per test, starting at 40 grains working up to 41.25 , The powder I've decided to use is varget
The cartridhes were all made to the same COL of 2.820 which works out perfectly because that is still an acceptable magazine length! Yay

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I tried to pick a good day to go shooting the weather was a balmy 32°F or good old zero for all us Canucks.
I will also note that all of the shooting took place at 100 m

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For this test considering the temperature I decided that from a cold bore these tests would be skewed .
So I did shoot 20 rounds within a five minute period to add some fouling and also to give me a baseline temperature to do my test .

I let the barrel cool for 2 1/2 minutes prior to starting the first test
In between shots I let the barrel set with the action open for 25 seconds before sitting back down to take the next shot.

The targets I used for my test were 6 inch peel and stick show me targets starting from the top left being 40 grains going to the right then bottom to bottom right to the max load of 41.25 grains.

The final results were short of impressive as I've shot tighter groups using the 168 grain and 178 grain boattail hollow point. But I will continue to pursue to chronograph test the two best loads that I found out of the six which in my opinion is going to be the top right and bottom right targets.

40.5 grains and 41.25 GR seemed to group quite well... And it should be noted the flyer on the bottom right target that is off to the left - completely my fault poor trigger pull on my end.

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If anyone else has done similar testing out of a 20 inch barrel feel free to share some of your load data I'm always looking for something else to try seems to be the most fun part of shooting is this experimentation with different loads and different seating depth !
 
The 41 grains looks good to me. A slight dip from 40.75. I would adjust seating depth next while holding the same velocity as you got with the 41 grains, if you have or can borrow a chronograph. If not try shooting three 3 shot groups at each seating depths to see which groups the best.
 
I'll definitely be looking to take these out to 300 and 500 m for additional testing

Do you think I'll be better off just doing three shot group's for brevity or would it be more accurate to maintain five shot group's ?
 
Whatever you feel you can be most consistent at... no use shooting 5 if you loose concentration at 3. Better to do 2X3 or 3X3 just to prove there is consistency. That is all that you are doing now... is the load repeatable AND how does barrel heat affect the groups.

If you really want to see how you and the load can do, go for 5X5 rds taking your time to cool the barrel after each group. If you want to see how stable the barrel is, at a moderate pace, just keep shooting and plot where every shot goes. Odds are it will over heat and warp changing POI at some point. Knowing when and where will be very benefical to separate what is load, barrel and you.

You will certainly see how you and the rifle stack up...

Enjoy and it is funny to see Victoria with snow.

Jerry
 
20 rounds in 5 mins seems a bit fast and hot to me, I say this because I know my Savage FCP doesnt like that. I would slow it down a bit 5 fouling shots is all you should need. it looks like the 41 gr is close to the sweet spot for sure so try what Jerry suggested. keep in mind you dont need heavy bullets to shoot farther accurately lots of guys are using 155-168 gr.
 
Yeah personally i would look at high BC 155-175 gr pills - Lapua & Bergers offer those, altho my 1000yd load is the 175 TMK as thats what my rifle likes... As mentioned, try groups at 300-400 yds - you'll get a good idea if your rifle is up to it. I don't mean to sound harsh, but you'll need much better groups than what is posted in the above photos to be accurate at 1000. When you start seeing groups like those above at 300 yds, you're in the money.
Another thing to focus on assuming your brass is well prepped, is look at the velocity nodes that each bullet likes - you will see a definite pattern - in the Nosler page above, most accurate loads are 2400 +/- 50 fps, the 175 smk is 2600 +/- 50fps, and the 155gr pills slightly higher - stay in those nodes and you'll most likely find your most accurate load - just watch for vertical groups
Keep us posted!

With the shorter barrel and 1000yds, velocity is your friend
 
Barnard308 said:
20 rounds in 5 mins seems a bit fast and hot to me, I say this because I know my Savage FCP doesnt like that. I would slow it down a bit 5 fouling shots is all you should need. it looks like the 41 gr is close to the sweet spot for sure so try what Jerry suggested. keep in mind you dont need heavy bullets to shoot farther accurately lots of guys are using 155-168 gr.
Click to expand...

1 shoot per 20 seconds , for 5 minutes as a warm up / fouling - then I waited a few minutes before starting the test.

I could hold my hand under my scope / against the barrel bare handed and it registered as "Luke warm" I checked thebarrel before shootout new groups and it really didn't seem to be anything past warm.... Definitely not a hot barrel

I've made up some 3x loads of the 41 with different seating depths - I
Can go right from 2.820 to 2.840 and still fit into my magazine ... So I did 3x at 2.825 , 3 at 2.830 , 3 at 2.835 and 3 at 2.84


We will see how she likes those - for testing sake I will slow down a little but not much... As I'm going to test the rounds the way I
Will fire them in the field.

I typically setup steel at 400/600/800 and call shots on various targets - the new target I want to add is at 1000m....

Really looking for somebody with a crony to let me see how fast these are going - long as it's faster then 2230 I'm still Ss at 1k
 
Mystic Precision said:
Whatever you feel you can be most consistent at... no use shooting 5 if you loose concentration at 3. Better to do 2X3 or 3X3 just to prove there is consistency. That is all that you are doing now... is the load repeatable AND how does barrel heat affect the groups.

If you really want to see how you and the load can do, go for 5X5 rds taking your time to cool the barrel after each group. If you want to see how stable the barrel is, at a moderate pace, just keep shooting and plot where every shot goes. Odds are it will over heat and warp changing POI at some point. Knowing when and where will be very benefical to separate what is load, barrel and you.

You will certainly see how you and the rifle stack up...

Enjoy and it is funny to see Victoria with snow.

Jerry
Click to expand...

Ok so I took your advice , did some test loads in tenths of grain increases from 41.1 thru 41.5....

I also borrowed a rest to shoot the rifle from to remove me as a detrimental factor.... ohh and also ran a crony on the. Loads to test their speed !

So the 208g with 41.5 varget averaged at 2405 fps over 5 shots tested... 45 fps lower then the reloading manual stated ( with 24 inch test barrel )

I ended up making 2 extra rounds which I fired into the bottom right target after making an adjustment on my turret after 3 shots but 1 click brought it to far right... I returned to the original spot for the final 2 tests...


At 300 yards the tests were made in the following order

Bottom left , bottom right , top right , top left


41.5 fared the best in this test... and I think it's the load I will try to take out further.

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If you have a chronograph and want to make the most of every shot in a ladder test, I would suggest recording the POI of every individual bullet and the corresponding velocity. Then plot the vertical POI only vs the velocity. What you are looking for is a flat spot in the curve, where velocity is increasing, but vertical point of impact is staying flat -- not going up. This zone or sweet spot in velocity is tolerant to small deviations in velocity, and the middle of the flat spot is a good velocity to target. Below is an example of this technique using three different bullets. The same velocity range of 3400 to 3420 is pretty flat for all three bullets. That is the velocity I target and try to maintain as I next adjust seating depth.

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Shooter937, first off CONGRATS on some very good shooting. The rest and rifle combo and YOU are working very well. The group pattern is exactly as I would expect to see so you are breaking your shots very consistently with precise POA.... nice.

And your scale is giving you precise charges. What scale are you using? Good thing you didn't stop tuning after 100yds

You are close but not done yet. Assuming you can get similar weather, test 41.5, 41.6, 41.7 and 41.8 at the same distance, in the same way. maybe 2x3 rds.

We know the barrel has no issue handling 3 rds so try 4rds per step... 5 if you aren't getting tired. Plot where each shot lands cause you want to see if shots 4 and 5 expand the group significantly.... and make sure you are still making good breaks. Make note of any shooting error.

What you are now tuning for is the least amount of vertical possible. If the top right is 41.4gr and the top left is 41.5gr, you can see the massive change in vertical displacement that 0.1gr can make. 41.5gr is a small group but there is still quite a bit of vertical (assume it is not you). Somewhere between 41.5 and 41.8gr the group ORIENTATION is going to change. The group shape is going to CLOCK 90deg where the vast majority of shots land on a flat plane. If all goes to plan, it will look like a football on its side or a flat line of bullet holes.

The group size will be the same as the 41.5gr but the group shape will be flat. Yes, you can have a group which is 1 bullet hole tall.... just a string of bullet holes across your target.

When you increase powder charge 0.1 to 0.4gr above optimal, the group shape will change again... first it will open up to be roundish, then it will open up more with kind of a star shape to it, then it will just be big with shots going into the "corners"... pressure signs will also start to show up.

When you find the optimum flat load, repeat in 3X3 or 3X4 or 3X5rds and make sure the groups average as expected (yes, you can have 2 loads separated by 0.1gr that for now, look pretty much the same... they will diverge at 500 or 600yds so it will be easy to tell which you want to shoot to 1000yds).

If all is well, this is the time to see when your barrel will overheat cause you know the load works. Just start shooting plotting where each shot lands and if the barrel is going to warp, you will start to see the group string or expand or toss flyers but the majority of the shots still land where you are expecting.

My factory barrels have warped in 2 ways... tight groups open up alot but return to being tight as soon as the barrel cools .... or the bullets start to land in a curve away from the group center and this can be in any direction. One of my barrels would make a picture that looked like any eyeball with an eyelash curving off to the high right.

Look forward to your next range day... you have a great combo going on and if the load vertical can be controlled, 1000yds will be alot of fun for you.

0.1gr of powder change does matter....if the system is up to it.

Jerry

PS.. once all this is done, note all load specs cause you will need to adjust as both the barrel wears and the ambient conditions change.
 
This rifle shoots well , feels good out of the box ... bolt has some play when fully to the rear... but when closed it's tight with no play.

I ended up needing some lok-tite for the rail... otherwise I do prefer this trigger vs a stock tikka or Remington.

It's not the lightest rifle at 9 lbs without glass or bipod... but it's balanced well , the weight is all towards the rear end!

I want to shoot a friends RPR to make a cross brand comparison...

It isn't fussy about anmo , except this heavy projectile... that's taken some special attention
 
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