20ga SXS suggestions

.22LRGUY

.22LRGUY

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Good morning guys-not sure I'd ever see the day when I would want a SXS shotgun, but as the years keep ticking away...my eye is more drawn to classic looking guns than ever. Always resisted the idea due in part to how little I like single-shots, but some time behind a '79 20ga. Citori really has me considering one these days. I have a few questions I'm hoping the SXS shooters will chime-in on, and I sincerely appreciate any/all input...and photographic inspiration. :)

This his how I imagine I'd use the gun and what I think would be a good answer, but 100% open to ideas.

1.gun will mostly be used for informal clay shooting a few X a year, likely 2-3 grouse outings in the fall
2.thinking a 20ga./26" barrels /English stock? Huglu/CZ?
3.OK with used, hoping for something in the $1,000+$1,200 range but could be totally out of touch on that. Want a gun I can be proud to own/use, but for my own purposes/enjoyment, no interest in bragging rights lol

Questions;

Extractors or ejectors, and why?
Does a 26" SXS point as well as a 28"?
Any significant differences/preferences between Huglu/CZ?
Anyone prefer exposed hammers? I can see the practical/safety reasons, but don't think they hold any appeal for me

Willing to wait for the right gun, so I'm in no panic. Not seeing any used 20ga Huglu's around, but not quite ready to buy anyway.

Thanks for chiming in, I really appreciate it!
 
I just bought a CZ Bobwhite a few months ago in 20GA, (paid around $1100CAD brand new delivered IIRC). Have only shot a few hundred rounds through it but so far am VERY happy with it. For me, I was looking for straight grip, double triggers, extractors and screw in chokes and the Bobwhite ticked all the boxes. In hind sight, the ONLY thing that I would change is that I would prefer fixed chokes. The reasons for MY choices, 1-straight grip, slightly easier to move to the rear trigger. 2-double triggers, I have a couple sxs flintlocks and several cap locks, of course they ALL have DT and I would just like to stay consistent from gun to gun but, more importantly, simple = reliable. Rarely does one hear of double triggers doubling or not firing at all. Single triggers??, not so rare. 3-Extractors, When I shoot I am not in a race so reloading speed is of no consequence for me and I do NOT want to have to bend over to pick up my cases. Yes, with practise the shells can be caught out of ejectors but no practice is required to just pluck them out of the chambers. 4-Screw in chokes, I thought it would be nice to be able to change out the chokes for different disciplines but, in reality (for me) IC/M (or IM) will do most of what I want and if I want to shoot more skeet, I will buy a gun for that. I do not what 1 gun that will "do it all" because then it is had to pretend to justify buying another one. Prophet River has many Huglu's in stock and I think they have a used one or two as well. I bought my Bobwhite from Reliable gun. For the record, I do have a Fox model B 12GA with selective ejectors and single trigger and it shoots fine and I have had zero issues with it but I will likely be giving that one to one of the grandsons.
 
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I love S x S shotguns & no interest in O & U shotguns. My main use is walking the bush for grouse.
I pick small guages like .410 , 28 & 20. Love the 28 , as it is a lighter gun & all the power you need
for bush shooting. I like double triggers as it gives you instant choice of chokes for different shots.
I like a straight grip so you can slide hand closer to different triggers. I like extractors over ejectors
so that I can easily remove empties & put in my pocket. I do not want to leave elected hulls on the
ground or need to pick them up.Short barrels 26" to 28" are fine. Fixed chokes or tubes are OK.
What is most important is the stock fitting you. The drop @ the heal means a lot here. Many guns ,
especially newer ones have a small DAH like 2 1/8" . I need a lot more to fit me , like 2 3/4 or 3".
These are more common on older guns. I have no interest in low quality guns here.
Mine are ; AYA , Fox , Ithaca Flues , Parker Brothers , Geco M-60-E , Weatherby Athena ( made by Fausti).
Plus I even have an Iver Johnson Hercules in .410 , made by Cooey in the 1930's.
 
I can't really speak to the selection of modern guns but I can say this.

While i have lots of ejector sxs, if a choice, I would always choose extractors. Never in that much of a hurry and its just easier.
26" barrels will typically be a fast pointing gun. 28" or longer will help you shoot more consistently particularly on passing shots. Helps maintain your swing. For ruffed grouse I have 4 or 5 26" guns. For plains birds I have 5 or 6 longer barreled guns.
Cooey is correct about the importance of fit.
In an older SxS I would never endorse ST. They didn't really have the design down. Higher likelihood of problems and hard to fix.
 
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Have you considered a Browning Two shot?
That'll open some eyes around you.

Nawt humpy like the A-5's and they arnt hard to look at.

Brownings eye-deer of a sxs/o/u without the second bawrill.
 
Really appreciate the input everyone, thank you!

Licensed to kill said:
I just bought a CZ Bobwhite a few months ago in 20GA, (paid around $1100CAD brand new delivered IIRC). Have only shot a few hundred rounds through it but so far am VERY happy with it. For me, I was looking for straight grip, double triggers, extractors and screw in chokes and the Bobwhite ticked all the boxes. In hind sight, the ONLY thing that I would change is that I would prefer fixed chokes. The reasons for MY choices, 1-straight grip, slightly easier to move to the rear trigger. 2-double triggers, I have a couple sxs flintlocks and several cap locks, of course they ALL have DT and I would just like to stay consistent from gun to gun but, more importantly, simple = reliable. Rarely does one hear of double triggers doubling or not firing at all. Single triggers??, not so rare. 3-Extractors, When I shoot I am not in a race so reloading speed is of no consequence for me and I do NOT want to have to bend over to pick up my cases. Yes, with practise the shells can be caught out of ejectors but no practice is required to just pluck them out of the chambers. 4-Screw in chokes, I thought it would be nice to be able to change out the chokes for different disciplines but, in reality (for me) IC/M (or IM) will do most of what I want and if I want to shoot more skeet, I will buy a gun for that. I do not what 1 gun that will "do it all" because then it is had to pretend to justify buying another one. Prophet River has many Huglu's in stock and I think they have a used one or two as well. I bought my Bobwhite from Reliable gun. For the record, I do have a Fox model B 12GA with selective ejectors and single trigger and it shoots fine and I have had zero issues with it but I will likely be giving that one to one of the grandsons.
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I hadn't decided on the trigger (1 vs 2) but having had to hand-whittle a new firing pin for the old Citori to make it work, I'm inclined to go for the most reliable. The Citori runs perfectly, but intermittent ignition on one barrel turned-out to be a broken firing pin, and the Browning replacement part "requires fitting". Talk about an understatement. lol

I hadn't considered a 28 and can see the appeal for hunting, shell cost for trap/practice would probably keep me in the 20ga lane.

I think I understand the Huglu/CZ connection and a 26" Bobwhite sounds about perfect, are there any physical/grade differences? Any parts availability differences? Like the choke tube idea, and you've all sold me on extractors. Seems most shooters prefer them on SXS guns, thanks for explaining the benefits. I'm considering getting into reloading shotgun (or was before inflation took hold) so extractors make the most sense if going down that path.

See mostly 28" barreled guns out there after a quick look, and 26" (G2) models. Looks like they're geared towards youth/shorter LOP.

The fit question might matter considering my chubby cheeks, I should get my hands on one before deciding. I've mostly been dismissive of the "make sure it fits" suggestions if I'm being honest, but in recent years have actually shouldered shotguns that didn't and the results show. Since I want to hunt with it, it has to shoulder quickly. I might want to smarten-up on that aspect.
 
Have a look at the Churchill 520. It can be argued that its a better gun then the Huglu/CZ you speak of and at a similar price point. While I think both brands are excellent, my preference would be the Churchill.

I have both the Churchill 512 and 520 and they are excellent firearms.

Here is an old review I did of my 512 Silver. My 520 is a Gold model which has the selective trigger that the Silver model does not.

https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/1768358-Akkar-Churchill-SxS
 
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Extractors, especially if you reload. Even if you don't, nice clean sub gauge hulls sell well, for good money, and subsidize your factory ammo expense.

Personally I would stay away from Turkish and Chinesium. Perhaps the CZ, as a exception as they would be built to a higher standard with warranty.
 
I hunt upland exclusively with SxS shotguns, and I have owned several including a Huglu a Winchester Model 23, a couple of AYA #2s, and a couple of Grullas. The Huglu was by far the cheapest, mine was a twin trigger English stock model, and it was very decent for the price. A friend still uses it as his go to upland gun. I actually prefer ejectors, as I am a long time clays shooter that catches the hulls as I open the action, so they never hit the ground. I prefer 28" barrels myself , but it really depends on the gun, some have heavier barrels, and feel slow for upland. Fit is just as important with a SxS, and my SxS shotguns fit as well as my clays guns, and I do shoot some ckean rounds of skeet with them, when I shoot them before the upland season.
 
I'm not the smartest guy around, so keep that in mind...but...

- Unless I'm shooting them back to back, I can't honestly say I notice all that much difference in swing/ease of pointing between a 25"-26"-28" guns... It either fits, or it doesn't.
- Walking the wood, again, I can't notice all that much difference between a 25"-26"-28" SxS... while a 30" semi will feel cumbersome...
- Often lusted for a 20g SxS... but could never really justify it... Yeah, a properly scaled action might save some weight... but shooting target loads, the recoil pretty feels the same... So I stuck to 12g (it also helps that 12g are less in demand than 20g) and that it can share ammo...

I prefer extractors, but if buying used, I wouldn't pass up a gun I liked because it had ejectors.

I like double trigger, as I find it easier to chose barrel (choke) with a trigger, than fiddling with the safety-selector. A none-issue at the range, or if you can teach your brain to properly use the safety-selector (I'm obviously not there yet).

I find pistol grip more comfortable to hold (while in position) but will hunt with an English stock. Easier (for me) to carry, and to move the hand when switching trigger.

-

Can't speak for the CZ/Uglu... but there are some Browning BSS and Ithaca/SKB floating around (that ought to fit that price range). Nice guns if they fit you, and don't mind single trigger.
 
1963beretta said:
Funny statement given that CZ’s are made by Huglu….
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I have an akkar churchill sxs that seems to be pretty decent as well, I only hunt with it so time will tell how it holds up - but I wouldn't call it poorly built. Not all Turkish guns are the same, especially some of the modern ones. I still prefer my browning and English shotguns, but for the price the churchill was a nice addition in 28 gauge.

Re: the op's questions
I sometimes hunt with a 24" barrel, and often with a 28" barrel...the 24 is a little better in the thick brush as its a handy little package, but not a huge difference. I do think I shoot a little better with the 28" when I have time but for most snap shots in woodcock or grouse i find little difference. Hunt with the gun that fits and feels best to you.

I pick up all of my shells, so find extractors nice. With ejectors I just have to make sure to catch them in my hand by covering the breech as I open it.

Huglu and cz are pretty much the same as far as I know but others may have more experience with them. Akkar churchill sxs seem to be another decent option if you are going Turkish. I will echo others and suggest looking for excellent proven used models at comparable price points
 
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hors555 said:
I have an akkar churchill sxs that seems to be pretty decent as well, I only hunt with it so time will tell how it holds up - but I wouldn't call it poorly built. Not all Turkish guns are the same, especially some of the modern ones. I still prefer my browning and English shotguns, but for the price the churchill was a nice addition in 28 gauge.
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I agree, I wasn’t the one suggesting if its made in Turkey that is junk. As I mentioned earlier, I have a Churchill 512 and 520 and think they are excellent guns. I haven’t shot the 520 very much but the 512 has been the gun I’ve used most since I purchased it. Its the gun I’ve used most on the skeet fields as well. Never had an issue with it thus far.
 
1963beretta said:
I agree, I wasn’t the one suggesting if its made in Turkey that is junk. As I mentioned earlier, I have a Churchill 512 and 520 and think they are excellent guns. I haven’t shot the 520 very much but the 512 has been the gun I’ve used most since I purchased it. Its the gun I’ve used most on the skeet fields as well. Never had an issue with it thus far.
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That's good to hear, and I've been impressed with my 528 so far too. Looking forward to putting more shells through it as it seems to be solid.
 
I prefer double triggers straight English stock and 26" barrels on my sxs guns. However I have many in other configurations. I have a huglu 200b 20ga which is 26" barrels dual trigger straight stocked boxlock with upgraded wood and it's been great. I use it often. The wrist is alil thick for a subgauge but it fits my hand and doesn't look out of place. I just have 12ga guns with slimmer wrists. I have 4 huglu guns all which I enjoy shooting and for the price point I believe they're the best gun in their respective market bracket. Another point for extractors over ejectors is they are simpler and less to go wrong but an often over looked feature is there's less force needed to open the gun as your are not resetting the ejectors.
Huglus in my experience have better triggers than cz. The lines are very similar and since covid the cz price point as has seemed to increased substantially

If you can make it to the cgn sxs classic this June you're welcome to try mine for a couple rounds of skeet
 
Have a cz sxs SXS 20 bought it used. Shot about 1800 rounds at clays and some blue grouse hunting, it has been good and comes up nice for me. Had to add a 1/4 inch spacer for fit. Paid less than your budget.
 
brybenn said:
I prefer double triggers straight English stock and 26" barrels on my sxs guns. However I have many in other configurations. I have a huglu 200b 20ga which is 26" barrels dual trigger straight stocked boxlock with upgraded wood and it's been great. I use it often. The wrist is alil thick for a subgauge but it fits my hand and doesn't look out of place. I just have 12ga guns with slimmer wrists. I have 4 huglu guns all which I enjoy shooting and for the price point I believe they're the best gun in their respective market bracket. Another point for extractors over ejectors is they are simpler and less to go wrong but an often over looked feature is there's less force needed to open the gun as your are not resetting the ejectors.
Huglus in my experience have better triggers than cz. The lines are very similar and since covid the cz price point as has seemed to increased substantially

If you can make it to the cgn sxs classic this June you're welcome to try mine for a couple rounds of skeet
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That would be different than my CZ Bobwhite then as it is a trigger plate lock, not a box lock. I know nothing about Huglu's (other than they come from the same factory as CZ) but the only thing I have heard negative about them is single trigger issues, same as the CZ. I have heard of guys with HEAVY creepy triggers complaints on a CZ. The triggers on mine are pretty much perfect for me so it would seem that trigger break is something of a crapshoot with these particular guns.
 
Being a muzzleloader guy at heart, I like longer barrels. My Bobwhite has 28" barrels and I was afraid that they would be too short but I rather like them in that length. For me, I don't think I would want to go any shorter. The post about the difference in handling was pretty much what I would have expected IE, not much difference. When I put my shot kam on my CZ, it feels a bit heavier and a bit slower for the first couple shots then I get used to it and it "feels" just like without the camera. My 20GA double flint has 32" barrels and the 12GA double flint that I build has 30" barrels. I would have killed to score a set of 32's for it but they are hard to find.
 
Some Spanish SxS guns are quite nice and reliable. An Ugartechea or AyA in 20ga with a straight grip and double triggers is a nice bird gun if it fits you.
 
Well - Having owned a few shotguns, including Turkish guns, I would offer the following:

1) Single trigger guns are inherently more complex than DT guns, and more likely to be problematic in inexpensive guns.(my direct experience)
2) Huglus and CZ are very similar, with some models being identical. The Huglu is generally cheaper, but warranty support is limited by the fact that there are no factory supplied spares available. I cant comment on CZ, perhaps others can.
3) Churchills seem to offer better fit and finish than Huglu. (my direct experience)
4) Ejectors increase the cost and complexity of the gun...
 
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