22-250 and 223 for deer

1899 said:
You can't regulate the stupid out of people. That goes both ways when talking about this topic.
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You are right there. But you sure can make a hunter course a lot more demanding and weed out the stupids and not too serious ones.
 
if it is ethical to punch an arrow through a deer's chest, then it is ethical to take the same shot with a .22 centerfire and proper bullets.
 
Does anyone have pictures of how little damage is done when the wrong bullet or calibre is used?

I will post a picture of a shot taken from a high tree stand - 85 yards from a young eight-point. He went down, then got up and struggled for about 25 yards, then expired.

When we were cutting it up, I noticed the entry wound and took a picture of it - and here it is. The shot was a couple inches high - I will blame it on the height of the stand - 30 feet from the ground.

There might be a prize for the poster who can name the weight and bullet type - and a bonus if you can tell me the velocity.



IMG_0005.jpg
 
anchor3593 said:
Does anyone have pictures of how little damage is done when the wrong bullet or calibre is used?

I will post a picture of a shot taken from a high tree stand - 85 yards from a young eight-point. He went down, then got up and struggled for about 25 yards, then expired.

When we were cutting it up, I noticed the entry wound and took a picture of it - and here it is. The shot was a couple inches high - I will blame it on the height of the stand - 30 feet from the ground.

There might be a prize for the poster who can name the weight and bullet type - and a bonus if you can tell me the velocity.



IMG_0005.jpg
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300gr hardcast from a 45-70?
 
anchor3593 said:
Does anyone have pictures of how little damage is done when the wrong bullet or calibre is used?

I will post a picture of a shot taken from a high tree stand - 85 yards from a young eight-point. He went down, then got up and struggled for about 25 yards, then expired.

When we were cutting it up, I noticed the entry wound and took a picture of it - and here it is. The shot was a couple inches high - I will blame it on the height of the stand - 30 feet from the ground.

There might be a prize for the poster who can name the weight and bullet type - and a bonus if you can tell me the velocity.
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Ooooh, a prize. Could it be a high velocity 22 caliber, 55 grain HP at say 3500 fps? cou:

Or it could be a large caliber at close range with a poor bullet. I pick 300 UltraMag with Bergers.
 
45 grain TSX from my 223AI....

quarter.jpg


Exit wound from same....Bullet recovered after punching both shoulders, on a muley bigger than many will ever see.....

Exit.jpg


My gf (freezing her ass, despite being bundled up in most of MY cold weather gear), after killing said deer with said 223AI at 161 yards, at -25*celcius....WHOP-flop.....

Coldhands.jpg


Having seen the wound channels of little premium bullets, I have zero doubts about the effectiveness. I've personally killed several deer and black bears with the 223, and done penetration tests, and have actual knowledge of the bullets and cartridge used....How many of the nay sayers here can say the same?
 
bearkilr said:
Ooooh, a prize. Could it be a high velocity 22 caliber, 55 grain HP at say 3500 fps? cou:

Or it could be a large caliber at close range with a poor bullet. I pick 300 UltraMag with Bergers.
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Actually owning both of those, and using them on animals, the amount of bloodshot (read that LACK) meat would indicate a large slow moving bullet....

FAST bullets make a LOT of bloodshot.....Distance was 85 yards, that wasn't a high velocity round that did that.


This is what a 300 Ultra will do at 85 yards....And this was with a 168 TSX, not anything as frangible as a Berger....

DSC01808.jpg
 
KodiakHntr said:
Having seen the wound channels of little premium bullets, I have zero doubts about the effectiveness. I've personally killed several deer and black bears with the 223, and done penetration tests, and have actual knowledge of the bullets and cartridge used....How many of the nay sayers here can say the same?
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Like I said earlier, I have no need to use my coyote rifles for big game, I have more appropriate calibers for that task and don't feel the need to "test" marginal calibers on live big game...... it's an ethics thing. ;)

I know what works and I'll stick with that. :cheers:
 
bearkilr said:
Like I said earlier, I have no need to use my coyote rifles for big game, I have more appropriate calibers for that task and don't feel the need to "test" marginal calibers on live big game...... it's an ethics thing. ;)

I know what works and I'll stick with that. :cheers:
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Never said I "tested" anything on live game....Once again your reading comprehension gets the better of you.... ;)

I've used them, and viewed the wound channels after the fact....And I've tested several premium bullets in smaller calibers and seen the penetration and expansion they produce in different media.....

But you don't really care about whether something is effective, you just want to pound your fist on the podium and tell people it isn't....So hey, what ever helps you get through your days. ;)
 
I agree with Kodiak. The 22 centerfires with good bullets are phenomenal on deer. I am a big fan of the 64 grain powerpoint. Killed two bears with my 22 250. Both exits and both dead within yards. One out far and one up close.
 
KodiakHntr said:
Never said I "tested" anything on live game....Once again your reading comprehension gets the better of you.... ;)

I've used them, and viewed the wound channels after the fact....And I've tested several premium bullets in smaller calibers and seen the penetration and expansion they produce in different media.....
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I base my use of bullets on experiences with animals they've taken, not test media. To this date, I haven't found a test which matches bullet performance on various animals, be it ballistic gelatin or wet phone books, hence I put little value on these tests. Case in point, your picture of the 300RUM with the TSX. I would expect their performance in penetration of test media to be quite good. Real world results, not so much.

I'm not a fan of any high speed,light and frangible bullets. I prefer heavy, slower ones. That doesn't mean I haven't shot or tracked wounded animals taken with the fast 22's et al, I just don't like their performance, therefore I don't use them. The results are erratic, and I like to get as close to 100% consistency as possible.
 
bearkilr said:
I base my use of bullets on experiences with animals they've taken, not test media. To this date, I haven't found a test which matches bullet performance on various animals, be it ballistic gelatin or wet phone books, hence I put little value on these tests. Case in point, your picture of the 300RUM with the TSX. I would expect their performance in penetration of test media to be quite good. Real world results, not so much.
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Hmmmm.....Real world results? Great penetration, and good expansion....Yep, must have been bullet failure. Incidentally, after the surface slime was scraped off that particular ribcage, it was fine underneath.


bearkilr said:
I'm not a fan of any high speed,light and frangible bullets. I prefer heavy, slower ones. That doesn't mean I haven't shot or tracked wounded animals taken with the fast 22's et al, I just don't like their performance, therefore I don't use them. The results are erratic, and I like to get as close to 100% consistency as possible.
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I can understand why you wouldn't like shooting game animals with a fast stepping 22 if you were using frangible bullets.......... Gopher bullets aren't really designed to penetrate large animals...

Just sayin' that maybe your bullet choice was the culprit, not the cartridge............
 
KodiakHntr said:
45 grain TSX from my 223AI....



Exit wound from same....Bullet recovered after punching both shoulders, on a muley bigger than many will ever see.....

Exit.jpg




Having seen the wound channels of little premium bullets, I have zero doubts about the effectiveness. I've personally killed several deer and black bears with the 223, and done penetration tests, and have actual knowledge of the bullets and cartridge used....How many of the nay sayers here can say the same?
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Well, this naysayer says I don't see any bullet hole in the right shoulder for starters:p maybe you need some knowledge of anatomy?:confused:
 
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