22-250 Reloading Issues

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Hello, I'm totally new to the game here, in fact, this is the first forum I've subscribed to and the first post I've made!! So here goes! w:h:

I'm reloading for 22-250 in Sako bolt action and have noticed that the necks of all my cartridges are smoked/carboned. This is the case for older brass fired ~ 4X as well as for brand new brass. Is this an issue? Is the smoked neck symptomatic of something?

Further, I'm a bit puzzled by the fact that I've never been successful at using a neck sizing die to prep my cases--they just won't chamber. As a result, I have to use my full length sizing die and although the literature I've read suggests only partially sizing, even cases sized in this manner won't successfully chamber without excessive effort. Both my neck and full length sizing dies are the Hornady New Dimension type. My interest in neck sizing is to get more case life and (hopefully!) accuracy from a case which, except for the neck, is "fire formed" to my gun's chamber.

Finally, here's my best load, but it's still +1.00" at 100 m (5 Shot Grp).

Ideas?

Here is some of my reloading information:

Rifle: SAKO Varmint Heavy Barrel 23 1/2" 1-14 Twist
Cases: Winchester and Remington, sorted by weight, Full length sized, deburred flashhole, trimmed to 1.900"

Bullet: 55 grain Hornady SXSP and VMAX;
Bullet Jump: ~0.050"
Powder: 760 Win 37.5 grains
Primer: Federal 210 LRifle

Any help would be appreciated!
 
yes carbon on the neck is normal, it usually is an indicator of a low charge (which is fine) i dont reload 22-250 so i dont know what the charge weights are, but its nothing to worry about as long as it doesnt come back past the neck.

as far as the the not being able to neck size.. does an empty freshly fired case chamber fine? if not it sounds like you have a) a chamber issue, b) a head space issue, that allows the base of the case to buldge = very bad


how did you develope your load? ladder testing or just shooting groups? but this could be - loose screws - actiong, base, rings, etc, is the barrel making contact with the stock, do you have a flinch, and lastly, using another rifle(s) are you yourself capable of better groups? im not sure if you ment your new to shooting or reloading...

and lastly, "load development" at 100yds is fine, if you only ever play to shoot at 100yds, the further you push out the better results you will have, 100yds tends to only show - VERY bad loads and human error
 
I trim to 1.912.
IMR 4895
CCI 200 primers
34.5gr of powder
Hornady 55gr v-max bullets seated to 2.350 OAL

I use the Lee 22-250 Remington dies. I had an issue with hard chambering rounds. After abit of help on here and "re-reading" the instructions, I ended up adjusting my full length resizing die a little more and whoo-laa...fixed my issue.
 
I would try to chamber rounds directly after firing. Try 10 each of Win and Rem brass and see if there's a trend. You should only use one brand when developing loads as brands have different affect on POI.

There should be no problem chambering after fireforming until your case stretches in length to the point where its difficult to chamber (ie. headspace has increased). Did you start with new brass?

As far as improving accuracy, experiment with seating depth as well. My M700 prefers the bullet touching the lands...but try .005, .010, .020 etc with 5 shot groups until you find the sweet spot. I am loading RL-15 with good results in a 1/14" twist-you should have no problems with the 55 grs, however if things don't improve I would go to a 50 gr bullet (e.g. 50 gr Blitzkings).
 
22-250 Suggestions Appreciated! What's next?

Thankyou, blauber, darcy and ultimate monkey for your thoughtful responses and suggestions.

Here's what I've been able to get to. Tell me what you think.

Gun chamber and headspacing:

Fired rounds chamber fine. Gunsmith checked the headspacing (good) and chamber, throat and barrel with a bore scope. Apart from some copper fouling (I used "The Accubore Solution": soaked patch, bore brush, patch; repeat until it came clean), everything looks good.

Action, Stock, Optics Mounting:

Checked the bases and rings: all snug.
Action to stock seems good: the front bolt/screw passes through an L-shaped block into the front of the action. This L-shaped block had maybe 0.030" play in the stock groove when the bolt was not snugged down. Not sure if I should have shimmed the play out, but didn't, thinking that some stock (wood)/action movement due to temp change was probably needed. No signs of rubbing on the action/receiver anywhere, though. Thoughts?

Barrel is target/heavy type and a dollar bill can freely pass between stock and barrel up to front of receiver. However, noticed some worn bluing just ahead of the front swivel stud anchor point. Thoughts?

I should ask: Is there a standard way to reinstall an action in the stock to insure that no stress or issues are introduced if everything was "good" before I took them apart to examine?


Finally, accuracy and reloading issues:

Checked to see if my fired brass would rechamber: it does. So I'm not sure why I can't seem to successfully chamber neck sized brass fire formed in my chamber or why I have to absolutely full-length size my cases to get them to chamber. Maybe I'm missing something obvious with Hornady's New Dimensions dies??

Don't know how good a shot I am. But a 22-250 doesn't have a lot of recoil and I'm working with pretty good elements: Sako Varmint, B&L 6X24 Elite 4000 Scope on Millet rings and bases (Sako-style).

On bullets: I would like to go up in weight from 55 gr, in order to gain benefits of improved BC and down-range retained velocity, but Blauber, you suggested going down to 50 grains? Am I hoping for too much from 1/14 twist? Is it unrealistic to expect that twist to be able to stabilize heavier bullets than 50 or 55 gr?

On load development: I'm not sure of the distinction between "ladder testing" and "shooting groups". I just came to the load I did from developing 5 rounds with 0.5 grain increments and 37.5 grains of 760 W seemed the "sweet spot." Suggestions?

Testing at 100 yrds: I just figured, if I'm not getting good groups at 100 yrds, they'll be just ugly at 200, 300 or 400 yrds? Am I missing something?

Thanks for any feedback that you think might be helpful. Any further ideas would be appreciated.
 
Back your die out a 1/8 turn at a time and see if that makes any difference in getting your fired formed brass to chamber.you may have the die set to deep causing the shoulder to bulge.
 
Worn bluing on the barrel indicates a contact point under firing conditions. Locate the area in question on the stock and remove material. Even though you can place a piece of paper freely it is only a starting point and an old school standard. I like to see 1/8" min clearance or better on heavy barrels. You may get away with less on a stiffer/shorter sporter barrel.

Some brass just might be finicky. Perhaps the number of firings without annealing may not be allowing the brass to spring back effectively. If you have 4 or more firings, the brass may be getting too hard. Time to replace, or anneal, or just keep FL resizing until the brass shows indications of case head separation or cracked necks.

If you were using a FL die to partial neck size then I could see the bulge issue cropping up. But a neck size die would not affect the body of the case. So I'm puzzled as you are. So the only thing I can place my finger on is that there may be build up on the brass called donuts. Try placing a bullet in the fired casing. If there is any resistance then there is some brass build up not allowing the bullet to freely go in or out. Bingo....you have donuts. And when you size and reseat a bullet it will create a bulge at the shoulder/neck junction. Now, you just need some coffee and a neck turner/or inside reamer to eliminate these annoying nuisances.
The above is with the assumption you have been trimming your cases. Having too long a case will push the brass into the bullet and cause not only pressure issues, but a similar constriction like feel. Trim 10 thou from book spec as a general rule. You will know when the cases are too long, because you will not be able to place a bullet into a fired piece of brass. The end of the case will appear to be beveled inwards.

Twist suggestions on VLD bullets appear to be bang on. You may get away with the use of heavier Flat based bullets in slower twists. Have a look at the recommended bullets for 1-14 on the Berger site as a starting point.

Have a look at the suggestions for ladder testing on Mystic precisions site. You may find the best node in 0.3 or smaller increments. 0.5 grain tests are ok for larger capacity cartridges. I have fine tuned down the nearest 1/10 for my 22/250 with excellent result. 100m can work fine for testing. It is always a good practice to try your load out at 2-300m under perfect conditions to verify the node.

The only way to consistenly return back to original conditions may be to use a torque wrench on the action screws. It is better of course where you have had the action bedded. Any play noticed when placing the barreled action into the stock indicates potential movment and pressure on the action screws. I would suggest you have the stock bedded using Devcon or like material.

Hope this helps in some way. Cheers.
 
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I would suggest that if you are unable to chamber fireformed brass after neck-sizing, move to a Lee Collet die. The design of this die squeezes the neck against a precision mandrel...set to .001" less than bullet diameter. Neck tension (by way of die adjustment) is a no brainer-I set the die just so the bullet is securely held-usually 5/6 of a turn (which is less than their instructions of 1 1/4 - 2 turns).

When cases become hard to chamber after many fires, "bump" the shoulder back with a Redding Body Sizing die or use your FL Hornady. The good thing about the Redding is you can control how far you bump the shoulder-you need a headspace gauge (Hornady) and it helps if you get their competion shellholder kit (to avoid incremental 1/64" turns of the die on the press-PITA).

As far as bullets-you will see that Berger bullet twist recommendations will preclude a heavier bullet due to Bergers ultra high BC bullet design. You MAY get away with a flat base 60 grain bullet as it has a larger bearing surface. When I researched bullet choice, I elected to go 50 grain, as stability problems (unlikely) may have been an issue with the 55 gr higher BC options. Apparently, the 53 gr V-max for .223 will NOT stabalize in a 1/14" twist.

Sounds like your recoil lug is like my Tikka 595 (have yet to shoot it). If you search on here, there is a good thread on bedding the recoil lug. Basically, you want nominal clearance on the sides (.002"-or thickness of masking tape), and .004" on the bottom. The recoil lug should make solid contact with the rear of the recess in the stock. With at least the recoil lug bedded, you should improve upon your accuracy when assembling/disassembling the action.

I would agree that .3 gr increments are in the mix-plus bullet seating depth. Try another powder if things don't improve-you might be happy with RL-15 but Benchmark also gave me dynamite accuract with 52 grain A-max.
 
Wow! Lots to think about and figure out! I've got some "homework" to do before I get back on the suggestions. Clearly I'm a reloading/accuracy neo--a fair bit of background will be necessary before I can process these suggestions.

Thanks again for the wisdom!
 
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