22 Ammo shortage, specifically CCI shortage~vendors...what have you been told?

Cardamonfrost said:
Everyone knows aliens are buying .22lr because in space you don't need a big projectile. Further to that, you want to minimize recoil!!
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so this thread pairs nicely with the recent one about butting a muzzle break on rimfires? i knew it was aliens all along. its a good thing its only the space aliens though. the REALLY dangerous ones come from mexico.
 
the forbes article hit on a lot of sound reasons why ammo is harder to get, which all are true. As for the government conspiracy, they always remain conspiracies as no government comes out and says, ya its true. DHS is only one small govt dept. anyhow, no need for me to continue the discussion. I have shared what I know and am comfortable with my understanding of the reasons for the shortage.
 
Margucci said:
wait...:
1) surplus ammo is ammo which the government sells from military stock because they have an excess of it.
2) so they already own it, but they decide to sell it anyways. so it goes into the stores and is marked up by the retailer and put on shelves.
3) then they are government shadow agents in place who will buy it right away at that marked up price and give it back to the government.
4) .... where it is once again excess and the process starts at 1) again?

wouldnt it make more sense to not release the surplus in the first place? all that chain of events would do is inject a lot of funds into the firearm community from repeatedly giving profits to gun retailers. OMG THAT is the conspiracy! the obama government is actually trying to save the firearm industry. see... the majority of both the house and senate are republican controlled. for two years prior to that the senate (or was it the house i always confuse the two) was republican controlled. but since what we are seeing is the result of the "administration" (aka obama) and not the people who... i dont know... control the vast majority of the government (especially the financial stuff), that would mean that its actually the republicans which are trying to do this to drum up support from their base about this issue!

do you people not understand how stupid your ideas sound when simple logic is applied to them? just up this page is a novel posted by me which has some very simple math and logic which shows why there is the rimfire shortage we are seeing (this is the rimfire forum after all. i concentrated on that). so on the one hand you have accusations, conspiracy, and ideas devoid of any form of logic. on the other hand you have very simple math and very simple logic. using either it is easy enough to disprove what you are saying.

also, for your own good you might want to think twice about saying things like this. the majority of people think its crazy (because it is). just like how the majority of north americans think that tree-hugging hippies from greenpeace and PETA members are nuts (from the left. and they are), so are the frothing at the mouth, gun toting, pry from my cold dead hands, conspiracy theorists (from the right). give gun owners a better name. dont believe this stuff. or if you do (just like with not giving your child the polio or any other vaccine), dont talk about it with the general public. you arent doing the vast majority of us any favors, you are just giving us a bad name.
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Ok so you obviously aren't to bright.

I said 7.62x39 surplus and 223. Hp

7.62x39 surplus comes from the russians and others
And yes homeland security is buying it up.

223. Rem hp (not 5.56 nato fmj) is also being bought
By dhs over 2 billion rounds.

This is not up for debate, its fact. I could flood you with links
But you wouldnt believe it because you love to argue. I have
Read your posts on here before Your annoying As ####

Im not the smartest guy on earth but I know how to dig
Up info and stay informed and edit the good from bad.
You can do the same thing,

Your saying obama is trying to save the firearms industry?
Was this before or after the bank bail outs?
Just completely untrue, your just repeated things you here on the news..

Lets not forget who the number 1 murderer in the twentieth century is.
They are capable of anything.

By the way 22lr shortage is just simply supply and demand
 
C18cz858 said:
Ok so you obviously aren't to bright.

I said 7.62x39 surplus and 223. Hp

7.62x39 surplus comes from the russians and others
And yes homeland security is buying it up.

223. Rem hp (not 5.56 nato fmj) is also being bought
By dhs over 2 billion rounds.

This is not up for debate, its fact. I could flood you with links
But you wouldnt believe it because you love to argue. I have
Read your posts on here before Your annoying As ####

Im not the smartest guy on earth but I know how to dig
Up info and stay informed and edit the good from bad.
You can do the same thing,

Your saying obama is trying to save the firearms industry?
Was this before or after the bank bail outs?
Just completely untrue, your just repeated things you here on the news..

Lets not forget who the number 1 murderer in the twentieth century is.
They are capable of anything.

By the way 22lr shortage is just simply supply and demand
Click to expand...

Just use the "add to ignore list" available when you view a posters profile. Works great, and then you don't have to read the BS, works great for the post whores also that have to post in almost every topic.
 
Margucci said:
so you are saying that there is a federal government conspiracy resulting in them contracting thousands upon thousands of people to go into retail stores to buy all the rimfire ammo they find (and then somehow store it)? or that there is communication between the federal government and ammo manufacturers to buy mass quantities of ammo directly from them? that they have spent tens (if not hundreds) of millions of dollars with a republican led senate and they have not noticed a discrepancy in the budget? that all this ammo is stored in a great number of undisclosed government warehouses throughout the country? or maybe one huge warehouse (perhaps area 51) where ammo from the entire country goes? and all of this without a single point of failure when there is a HUGE portion of the US populace which believes and looks for conspiracies just like this?

.... or that americans stockpile ammo like you wouldnt believe and it isnt uncommon for individuals to have tens of thousands of rounds "just in case". hell, its rimfire. i can go through a few hundred rounds in an afternoon with ease.
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Just on the defense eh?

He did not say anything about a government conspiracy, but ok.

Why would they hire a high number of individuals to buy ammo.
Thats not smart at all, they have atf, dhs,elements of military,cia, fbi
The list goes on. Even the U.S postal service put in for a huge order of small cal. Bullets
And so did the social sercuity administration. There buying up huge amounts of ammo.

These are government agencies, so government funded/taxpayer funded/federal reserve funded.
This is not my opinion, the dhs is under investgation for this. Because the american people
Are not stupid and thank god there our neighbors

Your not applying logic to any of this, your saying conspiracy, conspiracy, conspiracy!
Type in "u.s agency's buying up ammo" there is free press, mainstream press,
Legal documents you name it. Yes, governments lie, steal and are opressive.

As far as budgets, no one is studying agenices budgets, yes there
In the budget but whos keeping track of them? So lets say everything looks legit
On the budget. Ok, well we know theres people who want to take away the americans guns(now ammo)
Alot of flithy rich industrialists, corporate scum and people who want full control list goes on.
They can support and fund it and find ways to still maintain control after the gun control debate loss.

Or theres black projects, dont see those on the annual bugdet. The cia has declassified
Quite a few of there taxpayer funded black projects. (Mk ultra to name one).

Research
 
C18cz858 said:
I said 7.62x39 surplus and 223. Hp

7.62x39 surplus comes from the russians and others
And yes homeland security is buying it up.

223. Rem hp (not 5.56 nato fmj) is also being bought
By dhs over 2 billion rounds.
Click to expand...
C18cz858 said:
Dizzy is right, they are also buying up 7.62x39 surplus and 223. Hollow point
Click to expand...
dizzy said that the US govt is buying up rimfire rounds. you agreed. so, you are agreeing that the government is buying rimfire rounds. my comments in this thread can often be applied to all types of ammunition. however, as this is the rimfire forum i am speaking specifically about that. and of course both DHS and the military are buying russian surplus 7.62 rounds. its cheaper to do that than it is to make it. they would be stupid not to buy it. many law enforcement agencies that the DHS supply use the round. in fact, the comments you have made about DHS buying boatloads of ammo was addressed in one of the articles linked. DHS supplies ammo from everything to boarder patrol, TSA, ATF, DEA, etc. in fact in every one of these articles, the sources from the ammo manufacturers have stated that government contracts make up only a small portion of their production. the rest goes to regular retail. so make comments about the government buying rounds all you want. thats true. nobody has debated that. what i, and many others have said in this thread, is that the notion that there is a conspiracy of people going into stores to buy ammo for the government is crazy.

lets just say that the US government supplies ammo to a million people (which is low when you consider all branches of the military as well as civilian LE), and each of those people only use 2k rounds a year through both their duties and training, that is still 2 billion rounds a year. it all adds up. and if you are doing automatic fire training a 30 round mag will last maybe 5 seconds if you dump it.

then you have the mass purchases of both .223 and 7.62 guns from 2007-2013 (with easing off periods in there) when people were going nuts buying up anything and everything in preparation for a ban (rightly so. it was close). well, now all those people need ammo for their guns. at the same time people who already had those firearms were adding to their stockpile. moreover, there was another huge demographic added. female shooters boomed in the past several years with excellent marketing campaigns from advocacy groups as well as the shooting community gearing up for female programs. the center-fire ammo situation is just as much of a result of supply and demand as the rimfire one is.

C18cz858 said:
This is not up for debate, its fact. I could flood you with links
But you wouldnt believe it because you love to argue. I have
Read your posts on here before Your annoying As ####
Click to expand...
well considering i agreed with much of what you said i would find that difficult to believe. and im annoying because i support my opinions? there has yet to be a post in this thread which contradicts what i have said. in fact, others have chimed in and linked to articles which support what i am saying. i dont believe in he said-she said banter. if i have an opinion there is a reason for it. i will support my viewpoint. saying that you dont agree with me is meaningless without refuting the information i am providing to support my viewpoint. if you state otherwise without providing counterpoints that is the equivalent of using "because i said so" to support your argument.

C18cz858 said:
Your saying obama is trying to save the firearms industry?
Was this before or after the bank bail outs?
Just completely untrue, your just repeated things you here on the news..
Click to expand...
the thing about obama trying to save the firearms industry was sarcasm. i honestly though everyone would have understood that. next time i will use the [sarcasm][/sarcasm] tag.

date of the bank bailouts: october 3, 2008 (http://en. wikipedia .org/wiki/Emergency_Economic_Stabilization_Act_of_2008)
date which obama took office: january 20, 2009 (http://en. wikipedia .org/wiki/List_of_Presidents_of_the_United_States)

yup.... obama bailed out the banks. and i bet he caused the crash before he took office as well. [sarcasm]wait... not i get it.... obama is such a terrible president that he screwed up the country before he even took office. wait again.... before he was even elected (november 4, 2008).[/sarcasm]

yes i heard those things on the news. there are these things called dates which are important. so am i being annoying as sh** again because i did a 5s search in google.


-----edit-----
C18cz858 said:
1) He did not say anything about a government conspiracy, but ok.

2) Why would they hire a high number of individuals to buy ammo.
Thats not smart at all, they have atf, dhs,elements of military,cia, fbi
The list goes on. Even the U.S postal service put in for a huge order of small cal. Bullets
And so did the social sercuity administration. There buying up huge amounts of ammo.

3) These are government agencies, so government funded/taxpayer funded/federal reserve funded.
This is not my opinion, the dhs is under investgation for this. Because the american people
Are not stupid and thank god there our neighbors

4) Your not applying logic to any of this, your saying conspiracy, conspiracy, conspiracy!
Type in "u.s agency's buying up ammo" there is free press, mainstream press,
Legal documents you name it. Yes, governments lie, steal and are opressive.

5) As far as budgets, no one is studying agenices budgets, yes there
In the budget but whos keeping track of them? So lets say everything looks legit
On the budget. Ok, well we know theres people who want to take away the americans guns(now ammo)

6) Alot of flithy rich industrialists, corporate scum and people who want full control list goes on.
They can support and fund it and find ways to still maintain control after the gun control debate loss.

7) Or theres black projects, dont see those on the annual bugdet. The cia has declassified
Quite a few of there taxpayer funded black projects. (Mk ultra to name one).

8) Research
Click to expand...
1) if the government is trying to buy up mass amount of ammo to keep it from the people and this fact is trying to be hidden, it is by very definition a conspiracy.
2) given that government contracts with ammo manufacturers are public (for tax purposes of the supplier at the very least) there is a record of them and we know how many rounds they have purchased. this is a small amount of the total production. so if this amount is known and a fraction of total sales then they must be getting the ammo from the other area, retail. hence people going into stores to buy ammo.
3) yes there was a pointless investigation. in one of the articles someone else linked it said that there was an investigation and it was completely baseless.
4) see 1)
5) there are entire government committees who do nothing but go through budgets. because of the party balance most of these people are republicans. i would find it very hard to believe that republicans know about this and are doing nothing with that information.
6) a corporate conspiracy is still a conspiracy. and in general people who have that much money are interested in making more of and holding on to that money.
7) so a black project is buying all the ammo? i thought you said there was no conspiracy?
8) logic?
 
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I can say you are wrong about the cars being destroyed. I work for TMMC (Toyota's factory here in Canada). We only make what cars are already sold to TCI (Toyota Canada Inc). Nothing gets destroyed.
 
Bone said:
I can say you are wrong about the cars being destroyed. I work for TMMC (Toyota's factory here in Canada). We only make what cars are already sold to TCI (Toyota Canada Inc). Nothing gets destroyed.
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what he is talking about isnt done by the factory but in very specific circumstances be done by the dealer or the company directly. in cars though it is much more limited than the example i will give.

many years ago i was on the management team at a best buy. when i product was on clearance there were different levels of markdowns. after given time periods the price was automatically marked down on clearance items (30+, 60+, 90+, 120+ days). at a certain point you were selling items below cost. doing this on larger ticket items would result in the stores profit margin falling which obviously isnt good. in these cases it was sometimes better to write the product as a loss, destroy it, and throw it away. if you are half way through the year and have only used up 25% of your theft and general purpose write off budgets than its worthwhile to just junk that laptop or tv instead of sell it for a loss. head office wont think twice about you doing that as long as you are under budget in those areas. they will always care if your gross margin drops below a certain threshold.

this can also happen in the auto industry as well (although it is much more rare). if a dealership is required to buy a certain number of vehicles a year, must sell them by a certain date (if lets just say the new models have already come out), and has a corporately set minimum sale price than the car may decide to be junked. this is EXTREMELY rare though. it is much more common for the new car to be written off (junked), and then moved over to the used car lot where it can be sold at whatever price they want. the dealership just "sells" the car to itself, registers it, and then after a certain amount of time trade it back in to the used car side. this is much more complicated than my example above but does happen.

in either of these examples there is no conspiracy. its simple accounting. there is no malice intended by either company to keep goods out of the hands of regular people as the person was implying.
 
Back to the subject. many new buyers are in the market as they are nervous the 2nd amendment is under attack. The rimfire makers were meeting supply and demand, prior to the huge increase in buyers. they still haven't fully caught up to the new buyers in the market, the new buyers have scared the existing market into buying more, so the existing market doubled, without the new market, which has only made things worse, much worse. its simple economics, for those who want a simple explanation.
 
also the firearms associations in the US have been very aggressive in marketing to younger people and women. there are a whole slew of attractive male and female presenters on 1st party websites as well as youtube who are speaking to these markets. just take a look at nranews(dot)com/home/list/channel-guide. this combined with frequent media attention means firearms are more popular than ever.
 
Two words. Project Appleseed. I hadn't heard of this program until about 6 months ago. It has a HUGE following. I read somewhere that 75000 people competed last year. If all of these people are practicing, and stock piling, that is a lot of people consuming a large amount of .22 RF.

Assuming each person bought 2000 rounds last year, that is 150 Million rounds. Their requirements to shoot a match are 400 rounds per weekend, so this estimate is probably quite low.
 
yea even at shooting once a month you would be at 4800 just for the event. if you use an additional 50% practicing (which you would need a lot) or just doing other things for fun that would put you up to 7200 per person. at 75k people thats 540 million rounds. to produce that you would need 1.479 million rounds made a day assuming 365 days per year production. and thats just this one type of event. you also have all the other competitions, olympic shooting, and for fun. i would imagine olympic shooters alone are doing at least 20k-40k rounds a year in training and competitions.
 
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