If you shot someone with your .22lr, the media would still call it "high powered". If it was a rifle, you would be a "sniper", pistol, it would be "concealable", in between, it would be an "assault rifle".
.22 for self-defense...?
- Thread starter halfdar
- Start date
Don't know what world you live but you do know it is lawful to use firearms for defence in Canada when it is supported by the totality of circumstances.
Clobbersauras
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Waaay out west.
Applies to most of this thread....
[Youtube]LQCU36pkH7c[/Youtube]
[Youtube]LQCU36pkH7c[/Youtube]
There are some advantages of using a 22 LR for home defense. First is the noise level and the flash (for night situations).
Although I believe there is NOTHING like a 357 mag or 10mm, I would likely be deaf in a home situation after the first shot and temporarily blind.
A 22 LR revolver seems like the best solution. I like the S&W 617 since it has 10 shots. If you have a misfire, pull the trigger again (9 out 10 ain't bad). If you can't stop the threat in 9 or 10 shots - forget it. BTW, you can get speed loaders for the 617, but I could only see this in a movie fantasy.
That being said, it is worthwhile to try and find the best possible ammo for your gun.
Although I believe there is NOTHING like a 357 mag or 10mm, I would likely be deaf in a home situation after the first shot and temporarily blind.
A 22 LR revolver seems like the best solution. I like the S&W 617 since it has 10 shots. If you have a misfire, pull the trigger again (9 out 10 ain't bad). If you can't stop the threat in 9 or 10 shots - forget it. BTW, you can get speed loaders for the 617, but I could only see this in a movie fantasy.
That being said, it is worthwhile to try and find the best possible ammo for your gun.
I know you can use firearm for self-defense.. But the problem is to define the "totality of circumstances". You can't just shoot a man because he is in your house or in your garden. You can use it if your life is is in danger. if you shoot him (in the dark) because you "think" he could be dangerous... I don't think its considered self-defense. I dont think you can shoot a man who is trying to steal your car. There is a thin line between "self-defense" and "excessive power". But if someone break into your house in the middle of the night and youre gonna grab a gun in the safe... What would you pick? A little 22lr pistol or a 9mm? (Or even a .45 or .357 mag) I would choose my favorite handgun, the one I got more proficiency with. (I would pick my beretta 92 long before my beretta 71) You want a reliable weapon and you also want a handgun that would "intimidate" the bad guy. I think a bad guy would run away in front of a 6" barrel revolver without asking for more... But he would try to confront you if you hold a little plinker gun like a ruger lite in flashy metal blue...
in your garden? no, breaking into your house in the middle of the night without authorization and the potential of hurting you and your family, then most definitely yes
the story of the guy going out to confront the guy breaking into his truck the other day, totally uncalled for, but when they come into your house, you fear for your life
Only an absolute fool would pull a gun on anyone to intimidate or scare. (My $.02) In regards to the noise and flash of the mighty .22, I recall seeing a documentary about 'The Iceman'. The guy was a pent up transexual (confused homosexual) Mafia hitman. This Iceman popped a guy in a car with a .22 revolver (paid organized crime 'hit'). The Iceman commented on the fact that he would NEVER do that again, he thought the noise was going to cause permanent hearing damage (all her could hear was a ring/hiss after the first shot.)...and yes, he also said the flash was blinding. (the execution was at night in a blacked out car)
Back in the day (early 80's ), I got to shoot a Berretta Minx in .22 short at an after party ( branding cattle owned by an LEO ). Surprisingly noisy with a bit of muzzle flip, and no accuracy.
Poker table gun IMO.
I tend to think more along the lines of Ruger Mk's 1 - 3 as far as size and ergonomics. The real pocket pistols are parlour guns, minimal useful usage IMO.
Poker table gun IMO.
I tend to think more along the lines of Ruger Mk's 1 - 3 as far as size and ergonomics. The real pocket pistols are parlour guns, minimal useful usage IMO.
I've killed enough livestock with a .22 to know that a brain shot will do most moderate size animals in, instantly. I prefer to use something bigger though. Anything less than perfection with a 22 and you are in for a rodeo. IOf I had to use a .22 for self defense I would hope to put one between the eyes. I guess a shot to the balls or the knee might be pretty effective at slowing someone down though.
wayupnorth
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Northern Alberta
20 years ive worked on the ambulance.
in those 20 years ive had several opportunities to see first hand what different caliber guns do to people who are on the wrong side of them.
from everything ive seen i can tell you "I" would not use a 22 for self defense unless i had nothing else at my disposal.
you all can argue energy and reliability and whatever else you want but at the end of the day im the one that has to come and plug the holes and i get to see up close and personal what the holes do.
and my ass isnt gonna use a 22 for anything other then gophers or paper punching.
have a conversation with someone whos been shot with a 22 and listen to them complain all the way to the hospital about how much it hurts and then tell me that youd want to be using that round if your life was on the line, nope, no thanks.
when i think of using a 22 for self defense the first thing i think of is growing up shooting gophers on the farm and watching the odd one crawl 20 feet to his hole with 3 or 4 ill placed rounds in him. if a little gopher can take multiple rounds and still make it out thats not saying much for the lethality.
and yes, head shots, ive too have seen a butcher drop a cow with a 22 short in one shot from 1 foot away.
ive also seen people live through catching a 22 round to the brain bucket (ive also seen people die from them) but very few died instantly.
sorry to jump in with a dose of reality to this theoretical conversation, just thought it should be said.
in those 20 years ive had several opportunities to see first hand what different caliber guns do to people who are on the wrong side of them.
from everything ive seen i can tell you "I" would not use a 22 for self defense unless i had nothing else at my disposal.
you all can argue energy and reliability and whatever else you want but at the end of the day im the one that has to come and plug the holes and i get to see up close and personal what the holes do.
and my ass isnt gonna use a 22 for anything other then gophers or paper punching.
have a conversation with someone whos been shot with a 22 and listen to them complain all the way to the hospital about how much it hurts and then tell me that youd want to be using that round if your life was on the line, nope, no thanks.
when i think of using a 22 for self defense the first thing i think of is growing up shooting gophers on the farm and watching the odd one crawl 20 feet to his hole with 3 or 4 ill placed rounds in him. if a little gopher can take multiple rounds and still make it out thats not saying much for the lethality.
and yes, head shots, ive too have seen a butcher drop a cow with a 22 short in one shot from 1 foot away.
ive also seen people live through catching a 22 round to the brain bucket (ive also seen people die from them) but very few died instantly.
sorry to jump in with a dose of reality to this theoretical conversation, just thought it should be said.
Geo's mod 71 would fit nice in your pocket......Reliable and accurate too.
Geo's mod 71 fit the pockets of a lot of Israeli security officers (and assassins). A number of armed hijackers, shot two or three times with accurate fire in the chest or head, died immediately. Google them for yourself, there are plenty of examples to find.
Nobody I know of ever took the 950B "Minx" onto hijacked aircraft, possibly for good reason, though I have several that are surprisingly accurate. They have no ejector, which is a big problem in any FTF or FTE situation. The model 71 definitely went there, quite successfully. The bad guys died holding all kinds of guns in bigger calibers, they died promptly, they stopped immediately, and the operators of the Beretta M71 didn't complain about wanting bigger calibers. In the hands of a skilled operator, these are tremendously effective firearms.
In American statistics, 90% plus of "firearm involved" defensive situations, as others have pointed out, are simple "brandishment" -- the firearm is deployed but not used, the surprised bad guy(s) depart the scene without asking "hey, what caliber is that?" and everyone is pleased with the outcome. At the point that a trigger gets pulled, we have examples of people continuing to kill with a Police .38 Special round in their forehead, and we have people collapsing and dying almost immediately from a .22 LR to the upper arm. Adrenaline vs. shock, rage vs. belief.
If you can hit what you're aiming at, you have a self defense gun. If you consistently miss under pressure with your Magnum, you are a threat to bystanders, neighbors, family and of course yourself. Luckily, as others have pointed out, this is a moot point for the vast majority. Given legal storage requirements and common sense, it's a discussion for the mall ninjas.
+1 on the bat recommendation, anyway. Drunk or high burglars (the majority I dealt with were under the influence of something) will recognize a bat, and its consequences, a lot more quickly than they can process and appreciate a firearm. The bat is a more effective threat, less likely to need to be used against an impaired (and still dangerous) criminal, and much more socially acceptable. Safe storage = keep one under your bed and one near the door. You are very unlikely to make the news with your bat, and that is a good thing.
Well said gunzik.
I have not fought for real for 15 years but God forbid if I ever have to do it in the future I will stick to the "fighting fair is for fools and saints" credo.
As a young man my friend and I faced two men with baseball bats barehanded. Through an error in judgement on my part, after I downed mthe first guy I was grazed on my right shoulder and my friend was struck on the jaw. I immediately rushed the remaining guy with a bat and my buddy who went down was immediately back on his feet and the two other guys ran.
I would use a baseball bat if I was in fear for my life AND there were no better alternatives available.
YMMV.
I have not fought for real for 15 years but God forbid if I ever have to do it in the future I will stick to the "fighting fair is for fools and saints" credo.
As a young man my friend and I faced two men with baseball bats barehanded. Through an error in judgement on my part, after I downed mthe first guy I was grazed on my right shoulder and my friend was struck on the jaw. I immediately rushed the remaining guy with a bat and my buddy who went down was immediately back on his feet and the two other guys ran.
I would use a baseball bat if I was in fear for my life AND there were no better alternatives available.
YMMV.
There, fixed it for you.
I work as an Expert Witness, helping lawyers with their lawsuits. Today I was given a file to read. It included the Coroner's report on a guy who was murdered.
He was shot in the chest 5 times with a 9mm. 4 of the shots exited. If he had been taken to the hospital right away, he probably would have survived. He was left to drain in the trunk of his car.
None of the 5 shots would have had much of an impact on his fighting. If 5 9mms won't immediately stop an intruder, how could we trust a 22?
+1 to that!
Like i said before, Having a handgun in canada don't mean you can shoot a "bad guy" as your wish, im gonna grab a baseball bat, a knife, a metal bar long before ill grab my handgun for self-defense. Sure it always depend of the situation, but even on the worst case scenarion, i think i would grab my Rem 870 (18" barrel) before my pistol. I you ever need to put a round on a bad guy, you'll need a powerful one. Easier to explain why you put 1-2 rounds on someone in a self-defense situation than 10 rounds. And even if you have the right to "defend yourself" with a firearm in Canada, 80% of population are gonna think you're more dangerous than your agressor... (And do you think the media are gonna say you're a "hero"?) But a "victim" who put a bad guy K.O. with a baseball bat/golf club (or any other "house" weapons) and wait for the cop to arrive is less likely to have problems after this event...
