22 Hornet....signs of excessive pressure...

D

Dantforth

CGN frequent flyer
GunNutz
Rating - 100%
107   0   0
Location
Westport, Ontario, Canada
Just started with the 22 Hornet reloading. My first five to try I loaded at 7.0 gns. of 2400 in new Winchester cases under Sierra BlitzKing 45 grain bullets with Remington small rifle primers. These shot well and there were no signs of pressure. I am neck sizing only with a new set of Lee dies with the "collet". I do not have a new reloading guide so went to my old volume of the Lyman manual. It gives 9.5 grns. of 2400 as a starter and 10.8 gns. as maximum. So, being somewhat careful I loaded up the same components with 8.0 gns. of 2400 in the same five cases. I shot them today and upon checking the cases was astonished to say the least. The primers were flattened with the imprint of the tooling marks on them and the base of the case. The primer had also started to flow into the firing pin hole....cratering I believe. Now...just what is going on here? Other reloading data on the web has starting loads in the same range. Any suggestions? Dave P.S. - I just went to the bench to remove the primers and see if the primer pockets had swelled. The rim has flowed enough that they will not fit into the shell holder!
 
Last edited:
I've always read that staying above the minumum load is as important as staying below the maximum. Low charges can result in powder detonation and extremely high pressure.

I'm mostly a pistol guy and just starting to reload rifle, but here's my advice:
Double check everything, your scale accuracy, the powder type, weigh your bullets, examine your cases and that they're headspacing properly, measure OAL and crimp, ensure the bullet isn't hitting the lands prematurely, and all the other stuff. Then check it all again. And once more. Then a fourth time.

Get another reloading manual, maybe the Lyman has a typo.

Maybe get your rifle checked. Does factory ammo shoot OK?

If everything is correct, move up to the minimum published charge weight and try shooting again. Use unfired brass because it might be a little stronger. I'd keep my face away from the action this time, just in case.

Don't hold me liable for your results.
 
How old is your load data? I believe 2400 has gotten quite a bit faster over the years.

It's a poor choice in the Hornet anyway. Lil gun is tops, 110/296 are good, and 4227 is good as well. AA-1680 (if you can find it) is another classic choice.

Do you have a chrony? How fast were they going?
 
I tried to get L'il Gun today at my local store but....the law according to the left wing liberals.....he didn't have any and------the nearest other store is 75 miles from me. I drove 40 miles to the one I went to!
I have looked and I can't find any other load data which gives me the same loads as the Lyman manual. The only variable as I see it is my scale. I zeroed it properly but with such light loads could there be a problem with the measuring? I certainly won't go any heavier. Interesting that I am seating the bullets out as far as possible and they still don't hit the rifling. The rifle is.....a Savage single shot break open Model 219B. I have factory loads and also tried them this morning and ....they shot better (more accurately) and there was no obvious pressure problems as there was with my home rolled ones. I would just guess that maybe my #2400 is different than the ones used for the Lyman manual. This powder has been in my kit for at least twenty-five years. I have used this powder in many other combinations with no problems. I will persue the "L'il Gun" powder and then use it only. What in hell would have happened if I had used the 10 grains which the manual gave as maximum? Great reason for starting low and working up. I do appreciate the advise. No chrony but I'll bet from the appearance of the cases the bullets were really quick. Dave
 
The question as to what happened has not been resolved. In the current Sierra manual, 2400 is a recommended powder for the Hornet. Load data with 2400 for a 45 gr bullet starts at 8.3 grs. and 9.8 grs. is maximum.

As stated above, calibrate your scale and make sure it is reading correctly. Weigh some of your bullets to ensure that they are in fact 45 grain, although the manual has virtually the same load range for 50 gr bullets. The primer used in the Sierra manual is the Federal 205M which is a small rifle magnum.

If you re-examine all of your components and procedures and have found nothing wrong, I suggest putting in a call to the Sierra tech line at 1-800-223-8799. These guys have been a big help to me in the past, and are easy to talk to.
 
High pressures in 22 Hornet....

I appreciate all of the good advise. I have reloaded for years with zero problems like this probably due to the fact that I never load to maximum. I just went to check the scale. It has not been moved since it was used to weigh the powder charges in question. It was still set at 8 grns. I took it back to zero and weighed one of the Sierra bullets...which were actually 40 grain pills, not 45 grain. This actually should have reduced the pressure slightly I believe. The bullet came in at smack on 40 grains. So, eliminate the scale...pilot error...and bullets. Primers were Federal No. 200 small rifle. This only leaves the powder. I have had this powder for years. If anything it should have lost potentcy. It came originally from AmmoMart in Hawkesbury. Were there different makers of 2400? Dave
 
Last edited:
AmmoMart sold lots of powder made in Scotland with instructions to use such and such data, but the powder was not specifically that powder just a powder with a similar burning rate. The powder you have could be a tad faster than 2400, which would account for the high pressure problems you encountered.

Have you loaded any other cartridges with this powder, and if so was the performance typical of 2400?
 
Other cartridges loaded with this 2400....

Boomer, I originally bought this for my 44 magnum in a Ruger semi auto. I remember without even looking, that when I tried 21.0 grains under a 240 grain bullet I had immediate signs of pressure and the rifle didn't function properly. After that I just used factory loads....Remington "RMG4"....in my Ruger. Kind of off topic but...I have tried other factory loads and none give the performance of the RMG4. I guess we have narrowed it down to the powder. I will stick to the 7.0 grns. as it showed no signs of pressure problems and grouped well. I have a pound of L'il Gun on the way. Thanks for the assistance. Dave
 
I just had a thought, and we may be jumping the gun here. I should of thought of this sooner. How old is your rifle? The early Hornets were .223" not .224". The 1950 Lyman manual listed .223 as the standard bore diameter of the Hornet.

According to Ken Waters, nothing disastrous will happen if you shoot .224"s in a .223" bore - if you have a strong rifle in good condition. But if we add to the mix a .224 bullet in a .223 bore, combined with powder which is a little faster than we expect using 2400 data, that may help explain some of the high pressure signs you experienced.

Another little gem of information is that about 40 years ago Hornet brass was changed - made thicker for greater strength, which resulted in a reduction of about 8% of the internal capacity of the cases. Waters goes on to say that reloaders are advised not to use data from the older manuals, with special emphasis on Hercules 2400. This does not address your situation as you are already well below the recommended loads listed in the modern manuals, but it is interesting none the less.
 
Boomer, the rifle I believe was made in 1949. It may have the .223 bore. I will only use the powder in question with the 7.0 grn. load until I get some of the L'il Gun. My relaoding manual (I just retrieved it) is also old.....1970. It lists jacketed 40 grain bullets with 2400 powder...starting 10.0 and maximum as 11.0. Interestingly enough the test rifle used was a Savage Model 219 with a 1:16 twist and a .224 barrel diameter....which is what I'm using! I would just not want to know what would happen with 11.0 grains of 2400 when 9.0 grains caused the primer to flow and the rim of the cartridge to flow as well. I am just guessing that my powder marked 2400 which came from Ammomart, is not really 2400 but is just close (as already noted here)....since I'm not playing horseshoes I will not use the load again. I am also labelling the can so that when I go "up the mountain" nobody else will make a similar error. Thanks to everyone.........Dave
 
DantForth,
What primers are you using in the Hornet? I had problems with the small rifle primers in my 204 and have seen similar issues in the Hornet. They puddle for no reason. The cup thickness on some small rifle primers is thinner than others. I was shooting the CCi 400s and had to change to Federal 450m primers. There are others with the same thickness as the Federal primers but I can't locate the chart right now. If I find it I will post it for you. I think you will find that if you use one of the thicker primers your issues will go away.

Good luck. PS: I have found LilGun to be the best for my Hornet!
 
30Gibbs said:
DantForth,
What primers are you using in the Hornet? I had problems with the small rifle primers in my 204 and have seen similar issues in the Hornet. They puddle for no reason. The cup thickness on some small rifle primers is thinner than others. I was shooting the CCi 400s and had to change to Federal 450m primers. There are others with the same thickness as the Federal primers but I can't locate the chart right now. If I find it I will post it for you. I think you will find that if you use one of the thicker primers your issues will go away.

Good luck. PS: I have found LilGun to be the best for my Hornet!
Click to expand...

Right, but working pressures in the Hornet are so much lighter than the 204. I use small pistol primers in mine.

The CCI BR and Rem 7 1/2 have the thickest cups of all the SR primers, although having a thicker cup will only help to hide the signs of pressure, not actually reduce pressure
 
The answer!

Dantforth said:
I appreciate all of the good advise. I have reloaded for years with zero problems like this probably due to the fact that I never load to maximum. I just went to check the scale. It has not been moved since it was used to weigh the powder charges in question. It was still set at 8 grns. I took it back to zero and weighed one of the Sierra bullets...which were actually 40 grain pills, not 45 grain. This actually should have reduced the pressure slightly I believe. The bullet came in at smack on 40 grains. So, eliminate the scale...pilot error...and bullets. Primers were Federal No. 200 small rifle. This only leaves the powder. I have had this powder for years. If anything it should have lost potentcy. It came originally from AmmoMart in Hawkesbury. Were there different makers of 2400? Dave
Click to expand...
You have found your answer! You stated the bullets were 45 grain Sierra, but your scale said 40 grains. The bullets would weigh what is stated on the box, that is, 45 grains. Your scale said 40, so it is at fault and woud account for the heavy over load!
 
The margin of error that would cause a 45 gr bullet to show 40 gr would cause a 9 gr charge to show as 8. Still not enough to account for the pressure
 
Hi, Famed writer Ken Waters experienced huge jumps in pressure with mild increases when using 2400 and doesn't recommend it as such. I haven't had good luck with lil gun w/40gr bullets in my 3 hornets. 3 guns like differnt powder one Imr4227 oneAA-1680 and another Win 680 but that is discontinued. AA1680 or 4227 or lil gun should treat you well. With the exception of H110 I always had the best luck with regular small rifle primers.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom