A few years ago (I think it was 2009), there was an article in Gun Digest where the author sorted by weight and dimensions. If I recall, he found that there was not a huge difference in accuracy. I'll look to see if I can find it and I'll scan it and post it if it's allowed.
22 lr ammo quality
- Thread starter sportsman450
- Start date
So... any range reports yet?
CCI has bulk Blazers. Winchester also has several bulk packs from Xperts, 555 or 333, to Dynapoints.
The transonic barrier only comes into play when shooting past 70 to 80 yards, varying on environmental conditions. This is when the bullet pass from sonic to sub-sonic and gets slightly disturbed. The OP didn't mention the testing distance, but up to 50m it shouldn't make any difference.
CCI has bulk Blazers. Winchester also has several bulk packs from Xperts, 555 or 333, to Dynapoints.
The transonic barrier only comes into play when shooting past 70 to 80 yards, varying on environmental conditions. This is when the bullet pass from sonic to sub-sonic and gets slightly disturbed. The OP didn't mention the testing distance, but up to 50m it shouldn't make any difference.
Here's a fun one for ya...
I shoot at 100m with CCI Standard Velocity right now. I've finished the testing on my 10/22 and, no surprise really, she likes CCI SV best (within the realm of "affordable" ammo).
HOWEVER, the speed of sound at -8 °C is the same as the CCI SV... so I figure my testing might become invalid below 0 °C as the CCI SV will be leaving the muzzle at transonic or supersonic speeds velocities. I'll have to retest and I wonder if in sub-zero temps I need to go to hyper-velocity ammo for more accurate shooting.
Time will tell...
Here's a fun one for ya...
I shoot at 100m with CCI Standard Velocity right now. I've finished the testing on my 10/22 and, no surprise really, she likes CCI SV best (within the realm of "affordable" ammo).
HOWEVER, the speed of sound at -8 °C is the same as the CCI SV... so I figure my testing might become invalid below 0 °C as the CCI SV will be leaving the muzzle at transonic or supersonic speeds velocities. I'll have to retest and I wonder if in sub-zero temps I need to go to hyper-velocity ammo for more accurate shooting.
Time will tell...
It will be really close! Just crunched the numbers in JBM and it looks like you'll go sub-sonic just before 100m at -8°C with 1400ft/s .22LR. In that weather you may just have to put up with the transonic effect or get some slower ammo, such as the 1050ft/s standard velocity / match ammo.
Why do all this work for several brands/types of ammo? Wouldn't it be easier to just fire the unsorted ammo in your rifle to determine which one had the best accuracy and start from there? I can't see how one ammo type will out perform the other when it's not accurate in your rifle to begin with.
I think you're missing part of my point... 1050 fps will cross the sound barrier near the muzzle (at -8 °C)... so do I want to have my bullet thrown off with 95m to go (1050fps ammo) or 5m to go (1400fps ammo)?
That testing should prove interesting.
Possibly the only way to avoid this issue completely is to shoot CCI's Quiet 22 at 710 ft/s... but I don't think I can dial the scope in for that ballistic trajectory... talk about trying to lob it to 100m!
- Location
- Newfoundland
Haven't had a chance to get to range yet, unfortunately................. Now there is a factor I never even thought of "air temperature/density" but makes sense, just like in golf the warmer it is the longer the drive, so when it come to ballistics and range results temperature, wind, air density, humidity all play a role in the results. Think I will just try and find what rim thickness my guns like best and then brand with the least amount of flyers.
Good day when you learn something new..................
Good day when you learn something new..................
You seem to be amusing yourself, so go for it! However please stop quoting your weight findings until you get a legitimate scale... you state that the bullets are sorted into 2 gm and 3 gm groupings... do you really think that there is a specific 50% deviation between two specific groupings? Your inaccurate scale is simply rounding off... the bullets that weigh 2.499 grams or less read as "2" and the bullets that weigh 2.500 grams or more read as "3", all that can be derived from this is that you have sorted into two groups; one group of "lighter" bullets and one group of "heavier" bullets. You have no way of quantifying the deviation between the two groups and you have no way of quantifying the variance within each group... it would be far more "legitimate" to just label your groups lighter and heavier (not 2gm and 3gm).
And I can all ready tell you which group your gun likes best... "BOTH." Trying to distinguish a quantifiable pattern from two groups (lighter and heavier) of THE SAME ammo is pointless... because the shooter is always going to be "by far" the biggest variable and will negate any legitimate findings on target... on the other hand confidence is an important factor in shooting accuracy... so if you can convince (delude) "yourself" that one type of sorted bullet is more accurate, you may just achieve your goal of finding more accuracy... I would like to see placebo results (where your wife sneaks into your shop in the middle of the night and mixes up all your batches of bullets)... I bet the results "on target" would be the same.
But what the heck, shooting is fun... messing around with gear is fun... soooo, Good luck with your testing
))... watching baseball is a perfect time to do that sort of thing... I choose to nap.Nope, I fully understood your point. We just seem to have different info. I found CCI SV is specified for a MV of 1070 ft/s, which is also what I found when I looked up the sonic barrier at -8°C. Seeing as MV is measured some distance in front of the actual muzzle, the bullet will likely come out about 1080ft/s then quickly pass through the transonic barrier. Going with a 1070ft/s transonic barrier at -8°C, the 1050ft/s shouldn't cross the sonic barrier. FYI, there is super match ammo with even lower MV, such as 300m/s (984ft/s) or 280m/s (918ft/s), but you're looking at spending big bucks. You could also shoot from a longer barrel, say 24", or really short barrel, such as 12", to further reduce your MV using the 1050ft/s ammo.
- Location
- Newfoundland
hoytcanon thank you so much for clarifying that, 2gm 3gm lighter heavier whats the big f#$(*% deal .... I seem to have struck a nerve there somewhere........ lighten up man (some dudes are way to serious), if you dont like or agree THEN DON'T READ AND FOLLOW THE FORUM
Just for your info hoyt I am more concerned about rim thickness than the weight as previously stated.........
Just for your info hoyt I am more concerned about rim thickness than the weight as previously stated.........
What are you guys expecting with low cost ammunition?
I recently got a youg lady, barely out of her teens but a known shooter, to test out my Winchester 69A, with fixed 4x Scorpian rimfire scope, on the 50 yard line. Her first five hit above the target on the plywood, as shown in the top picture. There are five holes there.
I roughly sighted in the rifle and she shot five at the one inch round aiming mark, as shown in picture 2.
She quietly fired four, but when she shot the last one, she said, "Oops, that one got away from me."
There are four holes in the edge of the black.
The ammo was CCI Blazer.
What kind of accuracy are you looking for, after all of your weighing and measuring?
I recently got a youg lady, barely out of her teens but a known shooter, to test out my Winchester 69A, with fixed 4x Scorpian rimfire scope, on the 50 yard line. Her first five hit above the target on the plywood, as shown in the top picture. There are five holes there.
I roughly sighted in the rifle and she shot five at the one inch round aiming mark, as shown in picture 2.
She quietly fired four, but when she shot the last one, she said, "Oops, that one got away from me."
There are four holes in the edge of the black.
The ammo was CCI Blazer.
What kind of accuracy are you looking for, after all of your weighing and measuring?
Ah, I see what you're saying. I'm also thinking though (though I guess I didn't verbalize it) what about at -10 -15 -20 °C... at some point it's going to get cold enough for almost whatever ammo I choose to go transonic.
I figure if I can find hyper-velocity that's accurate below 0 °C, then as it gets colder and colder I'll be more "in the clear" when it comes to the sound barrier up to 100m. The ammo will likely be more expense, but I'll shooting WAY less in the dead of winter so should even out.
I'll tell you what the big deal is...
If you manage to convince some newbie shooters that your extremely faulty statistical analysis is meaningful... then there may be some misinformed, new shooters wasting their time with a KITCHEN scale and CANADIAN TIRE calipers, spending countless hours frigging around with CHEAP AZZ ammo instead of out shooting and working on fundamentals and shooting technique... So you have yourself a nice father's day sorting your 555's. You may continue unimpeded by my counter view, as this thread has most certainly lost any interest. Good day to you sir.
Seriously give it up, we don't need you to 'protect' anyone from thinking this test is scientific. I'm following the thread because I have the tools HE IS USING and could probably REPEAT ANY GAIN IN ACCURACY he finds without spending money. Your contributing nothing to this thread so so us all a favor and stop posting, you have had your say twice, now move on.
- Location
- south of Detroit
^I LOLz'd
Brutus
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Yes, sorting 555 ammo seems a bit lopsided IMO. This tedious labour might provide results equal to accuracy in a slightly better brand of ammunition. (IE-Federal standard velocity) I say might, becuase the audible differing loudness in report, often needs to the conclusion that varying weights of powder often plague the less expensive brand names. Pretty much torpedoing any sorting efforts from the get go. I think time would be better spent in just shooting a mid to high end brand of SK/Lapua/Wolf match ammunition. But that's my opinion only.
- Location
- Newfoundland
Wow ........... I could say alot but......... obviously there are people trolling the forums just looking for a reason to piss on someone, time to grow up we are all supposed to be adults.
I started this of by posting some observations that I noticed when taking a closer look at bulk ammo available in my area as I was wondering if they performed differently. Then I wondered if production variances per brand would make a difference. I had no intentions of publishing my results in any of the periodicals related to shooting, guns, ammo, etc.... I am just concerned about what "my guns like to eat", I will post my findings and those that read the posts can decide for themselves what to do with the information. The other option is to pm hoytcanon if you have any questions or concerns as he is superior and all knowing.
Now please stop hijacking threads, there is a saying "opinions are like arseholes everybodys got one", that comes to mind at the moment.
I started this of by posting some observations that I noticed when taking a closer look at bulk ammo available in my area as I was wondering if they performed differently. Then I wondered if production variances per brand would make a difference. I had no intentions of publishing my results in any of the periodicals related to shooting, guns, ammo, etc.... I am just concerned about what "my guns like to eat", I will post my findings and those that read the posts can decide for themselves what to do with the information. The other option is to pm hoytcanon if you have any questions or concerns as he is superior and all knowing.
Now please stop hijacking threads, there is a saying "opinions are like arseholes everybodys got one", that comes to mind at the moment.
I think you have this backwards there partner... it is YOU who is posting info on YOUR observations, on a PUBLIC forum... and then you whine when there are contrary opinions... I merely pointed out a flaw in your statistical analysis methodology and thus conclusions... apparently you don't like it when people don't agree with you... so how about if YOU stop posting on public forums... and may folks flood your inbox with PM's also... are you going to start a petition next... this would be a pretty boring, useless forum if everyone agreed on all topics... I'll ship you a case of Blazers... that should keep you occupied for six months.
P.S - It is NOT a Hi-Jack when I am discussing the topic of your post... you seem to be confused and are thinking that Hi-Jacking is when someone doesn't agree with you.
Shutup...
