220gr Jacketed in 303 Brit?

Fox

Fox

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I acquired a sporter No 4 Longbranch, the barrel was cut down to 22in and the stock done up too.

I cleaned up the crown last night and since it is a 2 groove it was very easy to measure the bore, the numbers are 0.311 and 0.290, so I feel like this would be a great candidate for 0.308 bullets.

I wish I had some 150gr kicking around but I have a lot of 220gr and it got me thinking. Since the gun has open sights only this will be a shorter range setup, so why now try the 220gr in this rifle?

Quickload shows essentially a 91% load of IMR4831 (38.5gr) giving about 40,000 PSI and run around 2100fps, I adjusted the groove diameter and bore area.

Does anyone have any load data that could corroborate this or give me some ideas? I know that Woodleigh has a 215gr jacketed bullet but I do not have any clue the reloading data for those.

Quickload also shows 33.8gr of IMR4895, a 76.5% fill, giving a 2050fps velocity as well.

Velocities are from a 22in barrel.

Thoughts?
 
I have never seen a 220. I have 4-5 different 215 but yeah. OAL will be your biggest concern. Keep it the same and I really doubt 5grns is going to matter much. I can't help with 220 specific data but I do have 215 data from different sources. You could use Gordon's Reloading Tool to verify your QL results at least..?
 
I had read that some people have been using .308" diameter bullets in .311" groove barrels, and are satisfied with that. I believe some war time barrels ended up with much larger groove diameters - like .316"/.317" or larger - owners do not get decent groups even with .311" diameter bullets - but most assuredly, the round would safely go "bang" - which might then be "good enough" for some. I suspect flat base bullets have better chance to "obturate" to fill to groove size, versus boat tail type bullets - but I do not know how much "difference" that would work for - is one rifle here that 0.005" difference is "too much" - getting 5" and 6" groups at 25 yards with various bullets and loads - I have some 220 grain .308" bullets here - Hornady brand - from before they used the "interlock" word on the boxes - they are intended for a 300 H&H that is waiting. I also have some Woodleigh 215 grain bullets that boxes say are 0.312" diameter - I intended them for some 303 British or 7.65 Argentine rifles that is here.
 
Potashminer said:
I had read that some people have been using .308" diameter bullets in .311" groove barrels, and are satisfied with that. I believe some war time barrels ended up with much larger groove diameters - like .316"/.317" or larger - owners do not get decent groups even with .311" diameter bullets - but most assuredly, the round would safely go "bang" - which might then be "good enough" for some. I suspect flat base bullets have better chance to "obturate" to fill to groove size, versus boat tail type bullets - but I do not know how much "difference" that would work for - is one rifle here that 0.005" difference is "too much" - getting 5" and 6" groups at 25 yards with various bullets and loads - I have some 220 grain .308" bullets here - Hornady brand - from before they used the "interlock" word on the boxes - they are intended for a 300 H&H that is waiting. I also have some Woodleigh 215 grain bullets that boxes say are 0.312" diameter - I intended them for some 303 British or 7.65 Argentine rifles that is here.
Click to expand...

The 220gr 0.308 bullets will work down to low velocity too, I contacted Hornady, those are exactly what I have.

This is a 2 groove longbranch, the 2 groove barrels are known to be good with 0.308 bullets, as opposed to the 5 groove, but worse with cast. The bore measures 0.290 and the groove measures 0.311, so a very tight bore for a Lee Enfield, hence wanting to give this a go.

I also saw some 0.308 180gr Hornady Interlock SP FB bullets today for $42, part of me wanted to just grab them, but if they do not work I have no use for them really, want to try any 0.308 bullets first and see.
 
I looked at my reloading stuff - I think you might have to consider swapping out the expander ball from your 303 British dies, with something that uses .308" bullets, normally. From a Richard Lee book here, he suggests that the re-sized case neck should be .002" smaller diameter than the bullet - for "grip" - some will call that "neck tension" - your normal .303 British expander ball may allow .308" bullets to fall into the case - but, a thing to try - let us know how that works out for you. I had read that some people do a "crimp" into the bullet to hold the bullet tight for a case neck that is too large - not sure, at all, that is equivalent to a properly sized neck, but seems that some report it works for them. I reload for many centre fire bottle neck rifle cartridges - do not crimp any of them for jacketed bullets - that may be different than other's experience.
 
Potashminer said:
I looked at my reloading stuff - I think you might have to consider swapping out the expander ball from your 303 British dies, with something that uses .308" bullets, normally. From a Richard Lee book here, he suggests that the re-sized case neck should be .002" smaller diameter than the bullet - for "grip" - some will call that "neck tension" - your normal .303 expander ball may allow .308" bullets to fall into the case - but, a thing to try - let us know how that works out for you. I had read that some people do a "crimp" into the bullet to hold the bullet tight for a case neck that is too large - not sure, at all, that is equivalent to a properly sized neck, but seems that some report it works for them. I reload for many centre fire bottle neck rifle cartridges - do not crimp any of them for jacketed bullets - that may be different than other's experience.
Click to expand...

Ya, I ran it past a buddy of mine, this guy had to size down 8mm bullets for a 0.318 groove No 1 rifle, so he knows some weird crap for reloading. He suggested sizing the brass then dropping the lee sizer and just neck sizing again, this would push the neck in that much further, or I can put in a Lee 0.308 sizer, maybe from a 3006 die set and see.

Worth testing as 0.308 bullets are a lot easier to find than 0.311.
 
You might want to pass along to your reloading buddy that Woodleigh, at least at one time, made .318" diameter bullets for the original 8x57J rifles - I had a box of those, but sold them on CGN - since about 1905, I think all European military guns were 8x57JS bore, which uses .323" diameter bullets.

As a side note - is alleged why SAAMI made the "8mm Mauser" pressure standard so low - so that users could fire .323" bullets in .318" bore rifles - and they also gave it a "new" name - "8mm Mauser" - so can see companies like Prvi Partizan make both - 8mm Mauser (to SAAMI standards) and 8x57JS (to C.I.P. standards) - exact same bullets in either - typically their 8x57JS are 200 or 250 fps faster than 8mm Mauser, but are fired in exactly the same European rifles. Some of the military mausers that I have seen are marked 7.92 - so I suspect that was rounded off to "8" to become "8x57".

Is some confusion about that - appears that some people translate the German letter to English and end up with the "J" as an "I" - so you will see references to 8x57I, 8x57IS or 8x57IRS, in some European references - that "I" apparently means same thing as "J", in English.
 
Last edited:
"30-40 Krag 225 grain bullet loads" Copy and paste this and it will take you to the Hodgdon's site and they will show the information for the loads below. The loading for the 30-40Krag and 303Brit are as close as SH!T is to swearing.


Remarks: start load; COL: 3.090"
150 Nosler Part Hodgdon H-4831 SUBSCRIBE 2306
Remarks: max load; COL: 3.090"
150 Nosler Part Hodgdon H-4350 SUBSCRIBE 2198
Remarks: start load; COL: 3.090"
150 Nosler Part Hodgdon H-4350 SUBSCRIBE 2388
Remarks: max load; COL: 3.090"
150 Nosler Part Hodgdon H-414 SUBSCRIBE 2403
Remarks: start load; COL: 3.090"
150 Nosler Part Hodgdon H-414 SUBSCRIBE 2531
Remarks: max load; COL: 3.090"
150 Nosler Part IMR IMR-4350 SUBSCRIBE 2615
Remarks: max load; compressed; COL: 3.090"; 36,300 cup
150 Nosler Part Hodgdon H-380 SUBSCRIBE 2311
Remarks: start load; COL: 3.090"
150 Nosler Part Hodgdon H-380 SUBSCRIBE 2489
Remarks: max load; COL: 3.090"
150 Nosler Part IMR IMR-4320 SUBSCRIBE 2420
Remarks: max load; COL: 3.090"; 39,700 cup
150 Nosler Part IMR IMR-4064 SUBSCRIBE 2695
Remarks: max load; COL: 3.090"; 39,000 cup
150 Nosler Part Hodgdon BL-C(2) SUBSCRIBE 2351
Remarks: start load; COL: 3.090"
150 Nosler Part Hodgdon BL-C(2) SUBSCRIBE 2491
Remarks: max load; COL: 3.090"
150 Nosler Part IMR IMR-4895 SUBSCRIBE 2435
Remarks: max load; COL: 3.090"; 39,700 cup
150 Nosler Part Hodgdon H-335 SUBSCRIBE 2349
Remarks: start load; COL: 3.090"
150 Nosler Part Hodgdon H-335 SUBSCRIBE 2508
Remarks: max load; COL: 3.090"
150 Nosler Part Hodgdon H-4895 SUBSCRIBE 2410
Remarks: start load; COL: 3.090"
150 Nosler Part Hodgdon H-4895 SUBSCRIBE 2575
Remarks: max load; COL: 3.090"
150 Nosler Part IMR IMR-3031 SUBSCRIBE 2695
Remarks: max load; COL: 3.090"; 39,600 cup
150 Nosler Part Hodgdon H-322 SUBSCRIBE 2369
Remarks: start load; COL: 3.090"
150 Nosler Part Hodgdon H-322 SUBSCRIBE 2518
Remarks: max load; COL: 3.090"
150 Nosler Part Hodgdon H-4198 SUBSCRIBE 2220
Remarks: start load; COL: 3.090"
150 Nosler Part Hodgdon H-4198 SUBSCRIBE 2366
Remarks: max load; COL: 3.090"
150 Nosler Part IMR SR-4759 SUBSCRIBE 2080
Remarks: max load; COL: 3.090"; 37,300 cup
165 Hornady BTSP Hodgdon H-4831 SUBSCRIBE 1967
Remarks: start load; COL: 3.105"
165 Hornady BTSP Hodgdon H-4831 SUBSCRIBE 2176
Remarks: max load; COL: 3.105"
165 Hornady BTSP Hodgdon H-4350 SUBSCRIBE 2115
Remarks: start load; COL: 3.105"
165 Hornady BTSP Hodgdon H-4350 SUBSCRIBE 2242
Remarks: max load; COL: 3.105"
165 Hornady BTSP Hodgdon H-335 SUBSCRIBE 2242
Remarks: start load; COL: 3.105"
165 Hornady BTSP Hodgdon H-335 SUBSCRIBE 2364
Remarks: max load; COL: 3.105"
165 Hornady BTSP Hodgdon H-322 SUBSCRIBE 2228
Remarks: start load; COL: 3.105"
165 Hornady BTSP Hodgdon H-322 SUBSCRIBE 2402
Remarks: max load; COL: 3.105"
180 Speer GS SP IMR IMR-4831 SUBSCRIBE 2425
Remarks: max load; compressed; COL: 3.090"; 35,900 cup
180 Speer GS SP Hodgdon H-4350 SUBSCRIBE 2006
Remarks: start load; COL: 3.090"
180 Speer GS SP Hodgdon H-4350 SUBSCRIBE 2110
Remarks: max load; COL: 3.090"
180 Speer GS SP Hodgdon H-414 SUBSCRIBE 2225
Remarks: start load; COL: 3.090"
180 Speer GS SP Hodgdon H-414 SUBSCRIBE 2276
Remarks: max load; COL: 3.090"
180 Speer GS SP IMR IMR-4350 SUBSCRIBE 2445
Remarks: max load; compressed; COL: 3.090"; 38,700 cup
180 Speer GS SP Hodgdon H-380 SUBSCRIBE 2057
Remarks: start load; COL: 3.090"
180 Speer GS SP Hodgdon H-380 SUBSCRIBE 2182
Remarks: max load; COL: 3.090"
180 Speer GS SP IMR IMR-4320 SUBSCRIBE 2210
Remarks: max load; COL: 3.090"; 38,100 cup
180 Speer GS SP IMR IMR-4064 SUBSCRIBE 2435
Remarks: max load; COL: 3.090"; 39,000 cup
180 Speer GS SP Hodgdon BL-C(2) SUBSCRIBE 1951
Remarks: start load; COL: 3.090"
180 Speer GS SP Hodgdon BL-C(2) SUBSCRIBE 2006
Remarks: max load; COL: 3.090"
180 Speer GS SP IMR IMR-4895 SUBSCRIBE 2270
Remarks: max load; COL: 3.090"; 38,800 cup
180 Speer GS SP Hodgdon H-335 SUBSCRIBE 1969
Remarks: start load; COL: 3.090"
180 Speer GS SP Hodgdon H-335 SUBSCRIBE 2049
Remarks: max load; COL: 3.090"
180 Speer GS SP Hodgdon H-4895 SUBSCRIBE 2171
Remarks: start load; COL: 3.090"
180 Speer GS SP Hodgdon H-4895 SUBSCRIBE 2265
Remarks: max load; COL: 3.090"
180 Speer GS SP IMR IMR-3031 SUBSCRIBE 2375
Remarks: max load; COL: 3.090"; 39,300 cup
180 Speer GS SP Hodgdon H-322 SUBSCRIBE 2111
Remarks: start load; COL: 3.090"
180 Speer GS SP Hodgdon H-322 SUBSCRIBE 2250
Remarks: max load; COL: 3.090"
180 Speer GS SP IMR SR-4759 SUBSCRIBE 1940
Remarks: max load; COL: 3.090"; 39,100 cup
200 Sierra SPBT Hodgdon H-4350 SUBSCRIBE 1929
Remarks: start load; COL: 3.090"
200 Sierra SPBT Hodgdon H-4350 SUBSCRIBE 2018
Remarks: max load; COL: 3.090"
200 Sierra SPBT Hodgdon H-414 SUBSCRIBE 2013
Remarks: start load; COL: 3.090"
200 Sierra SPBT Hodgdon H-414 SUBSCRIBE 2151
Remarks: max load; COL: 3.090"
200 Sierra SPBT Hodgdon H-335 SUBSCRIBE 1894
Remarks: start load; COL: 3.090"
200 Sierra SPBT Hodgdon H-335 SUBSCRIBE 2106
Remarks: max load; COL: 3.090"
200 Sierra SPBT Hodgdon H-322 SUBSCRIBE 1915
Remarks: start load; COL: 3.090"
200 Sierra SPBT Hodgdon H-322 SUBSCRIBE 2075
Remarks: max load; COL: 3.090"
220 Hornady RN Hodgdon H-4350 SUBSCRIBE 1874
Remarks: start load; COL: 3.080"
220 Hornady RN Hodgdon H-4350 SUBSCRIBE 1947
Remarks: max load; COL: 3.080"
220 Hornady RN Hodgdon H-335 SUBSCRIBE 1836
Remarks: start load; COL: 3.080"
220 Hornady RN Hodgdon H-335 SUBSCRIBE 1974
Remarks: max load; COL: 3.080"
220 Hornady RN Hodgdon H-322 SUBSCRIBE 1852
Remarks: start load; COL: 3.080"
220 Hornady RN Hodgdon H-322 SUBSCRIBE 1969
 
Potashminer said:
You might want to pass along to your reloading buddy that Woodleigh, at least at one time, made .318" diameter bullets for the original 8x57J rifles - I had a box of those, but sold them on CGN - since about 1905, I think all European military guns were 8x57JS bore, which uses .323" diameter bullets.

As a side note - is alleged why SAAMI made the "8mm Mauser" pressure standard so low - so that users could fire .323" bullets in .318" bore rifles - and they also gave it a "new" name - "8mm Mauser" - so can see companies like Prvi Partizan make both - 8mm Mauser (to SAAMI standards) and 8x57JS (to C.I.P. standards) - exact same bullets in either - typically their 8x57JS are 200 or 250 fps faster than 8mm Mauser, but are fired in exactly the same European rifles. Some of the military mausers that I have seen are marked 7.92 - so I suspect that was rounded off to "8" to become "8x57".

Is some confusion about that - appears that some people translate the German letter to English and end up with the "J" as an "I" - so you will see references to 8x57I, 8x57IS or 8x57IRS, in some European references - that "I" apparently means same thing as "J", in English.
Click to expand...

Ya, he knows that but sizing was much cheaper than buying Woodleigh bullets. Anyway, that rifle is not around anymore.

bearhunter said:
"30-40 Krag 225 grain bullet loads" Copy and paste this and it will take you to the Hodgdon's site and they will show the information for the loads below. The loading for the 30-40Krag and 303Brit are as close as SH!T is to swearing.
Click to expand...

Compare the 303 Brit to 30-40 Krag on that site, they are not even close for published data, the 30-40 is much lower.
 
If you remove the expander assembly when sizing the brass should grip a .308 bullet. If no accuracy, roll the bullet on a steel plate with a bastard file to rough up the jacket then either paper patch or teflon plumbers tape wrapped in the direction that tightens when shot.
 
mbogo3 said:
If you remove the expander assembly when sizing the brass should grip a .308 bullet. If no accuracy, roll the bullet on a steel plate with a bastard file to rough up the jacket then either paper patch or teflon plumbers tape wrapped in the direction that tightens when shot.
Click to expand...

If there is no accuracy then I will just move back to 0.311 bullets.

I just thought this was a new rifle, might as well try something interesting and having a bunch of 220gr RN kicking around, why not :D
 
Fox said:
Ya, he knows that but sizing was much cheaper than buying Woodleigh bullets. Anyway, that rifle is not around anymore.



Compare the 303 Brit to 30-40 Krag on that site, they are not even close for published data, the 30-40 is much lower.
Click to expand...

Yes, but they give you a very safe place to start.
 
I was able to pass on some usable data with more information than close to absolutely nothing or just winging it off a different cartridge...
 
Fox said:
Ya, I ran it past a buddy of mine, this guy had to size down 8mm bullets for a 0.318 groove No 1 rifle, so he knows some weird crap for reloading. He suggested sizing the brass then dropping the lee sizer and just neck sizing again, this would push the neck in that much further, or I can put in a Lee 0.308 sizer, maybe from a 3006 die set and see.

Worth testing as 0.308 bullets are a lot easier to find than 0.311.
Click to expand...

im using resized 8mm projies, 170gr speers........ they are down to about .3135 for ruger spec .303................
an ive only used 215gr .312s in the past, varget. about 38gr rings a bell.
 
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