223 For Whitetail ?

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I used a .223 Rem for whitetail when I was posted to MB and it was sufficient to drop the animal - I never had a deer run off on me. The only thing I noticed was that the round is less forgiving in terms of distance - at the time I was just using a 55 grain soft point so ballistically it was easily blown off target so I had to restrict shots to close in distances (<200 yards). I don't necessarily agree that you need to have a larger caliber for deer - most deer I have taken typically cap out at 250 lbs on the hoof and deer are pretty thin skinned animals. A lot of folks on here deal in absolutes - shot placement is the key and if you can afford to practice more with a .223 and use the right bullet design, I would recommend a .223 to a hunter for deer vice some pretty expensive calibres (i.e. 308 Win/300 Win Mag/etc). IMO I would rather see a hunter shoot at least 100-200 rounds prior to hunting season in various positions with a smaller more affordable calibre than say only 40 rounds with a "more capable" caliber (I am using a baseline of ~$100 bucks for budgeted ammunition in a season). As I now reload cost isn't as much as a factor so I now use a 300 WSM for all my big game hunting but if I was a on a fixed hunting budget I would definitely be using the most cost effective caliber to get maximum training in before the season starts.
 
Glock4ever said:
I used a .223 Rem for whitetail when I was posted to MB and it was sufficient to drop the animal - I never had a deer run off on me. The only thing I noticed was that the round is less forgiving in terms of distance - at the time I was just using a 55 grain soft point so ballistically it was easily blown off target so I had to restrict shots to close in distances (<200 yards). I don't necessarily agree that you need to have a larger caliber for deer - most deer I have taken typically cap out at 250 lbs on the hoof and deer are pretty thin skinned animals. A lot of folks on here deal in absolutes - shot placement is the key and if you can afford to practice more with a .223 and use the right bullet design, I would recommend a .223 to a hunter for deer vice some pretty expensive calibres (i.e. 308 Win/300 Win Mag/etc). IMO I would rather see a hunter shoot at least 100-200 rounds prior to hunting season in various positions with a smaller more affordable calibre than say only 40 rounds with a "more capable" caliber (I am using a baseline of ~$100 bucks for budgeted ammunition in a season). As I now reload cost isn't as much as a factor so I now use a 300 WSM for all my big game hunting but if I was a on a fixed hunting budget I would definitely be using the most cost effective caliber to get maximum training in before the season starts.
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I suppose I have no argument to that ^^^ , seen as I've never shot a .223 in the hunting environment at anything more than coyotes ;)
I'd certainly not shy away from using .223 on my coastal Sitka/black tail deer hunts, but I've got a rifle for that already.
 
The only 223 I've ever shot was a Mini 14; which produces a satisfying T rush, other than that seemed inaccurate. So I don't have experience with the round.
My son's coyote hunting partner had a 'Canoe paddle' in 223; Jr's thoughts were the SKS did a more effective job of anchoring 'yotes.
Me, I'm guilty of shooting deer with an SKS. So I've no leg to stand on and berate folks for using minimally effective rounds ( don't use the SKS for anything but gophers and 'yotes anymore).
I suppose the 223's rep as a scalpel must push owners toward it's use on deer.
Isn't it a bit minimal to shoot deer with? I've got less than 'atomic' calibers that I might use on deer, seems rather sketchy on a sportsmanship level.
Would it not be compare-able to a 30-30; which has anchored lots of game, but has long been surpassed by better rounds (got a 30-30 too, no prejudice there either)?
 
M16LR.50 said:
I know that most of the hunting board prefers hunting with 243 or 308 at a minimum). However, I have seen a few members lament about wishing they could take their AR15s into the bush for hunting. In calibre based discussions, a lot of the seasoned hunters typically say "it isn't illegal but I would not use a 223" and so forth. I admit, right now there aren't many reasons to do so (better calibre options etc) - However, if, for saying sake, the AR15 platform gets moved to non-restricted via C42s provisions, there will undoubtably be more value to this question as there will probably be a small spike in black rifle hunting (ARs specifically) within the first year or two... whether that falls off thereafter is another thing.

So, are there any hunters out there that actually take deer with their 223 rifles? Was the track & recovery any more difficult than your other years using the typical bigger hunting cartridges?
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why not have an AR in a different caliber like 30 AR, 450 Bushmaster or 50 Beowulf. Still the lighter platform than the AR 10 but some horsepower to get the job done right.

I don't put much faith in the AR becoming NR ever but you could always buy an ACR
 
Ganderite said:
Sierra gets asked "Which 223 bullet for deer?" a lot. I called and asked because I have a 12ga/222 combo gun.

They suggested the 69 gr MatchKing, if your rifle has a 1:9 or faster twist. Failing that, the 60 gr HollowPoint. I found the 60 gr HP had excellent penetration and expansion. It did not blow up.

Ontario deer are usually shot at closer range (25 to 50 yards) so good shot placement is possible. A boileroom shot with a 223 is deadly.
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Have you had an opportunity to use a 60gr in your .222? Effectiveness? Its a nice little round and not as loud as many.
 
As an aside to my first post, I don't particularly think that the .223 Rem is a great round for whitetail deer there is a reason I am using a 300 WSM now for big game. I killed 2 bucks (6 and 8 pointers) and 5 does with a .223 Rem and for the most part, they didn't die immediately. I think those of you who have taken game know what I mean but there was a bit of suffering in there and I personally don't like it. Walking even just 50 yards to a thrashing animal is not something I enjoy and I personally feel that we should try our best to make it as swift and painless as possible. When I saw my friend's 7mm Rem Mag and the difference in how fast the animal perished (literally like turning off a light switch), I switched up to a Magnum as well. It isn't required to do the job but I like the idea of using the most gun that I can handle comfortably to do the job and make it as fast as possible on the animal. I still hold to the fact that you need to practice as a larger caliber isn't going to make up for bad shot placement and with my 300 WSM I can practice a lot without developing a flinch or any bad habits. Sometimes I will see a guys at the range almost wincing away when they are shooting their 308 or 30-06 and I wonder if they maybe should have gone with a lighter round...
 
Brian46 said:
why not have an AR in a different caliber like 30 AR, 450 Bushmaster or 50 Beowulf. Still the lighter platform than the AR 10 but some horsepower to get the job done right.
I don't put much faith in the AR becoming NR ever but you could always buy an ACR
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Another brilliant post by Brian46. He doesn't realize that ALL rifles on the AR platform are restricted, regardless of calibre. Ergo - they don't get to go hunting. You gonna fug up this thread as well?
 
223 works for are small Haida Gwaii deer but it is limited to under 75 yards and head shoot
I can get almost anything with a 22lr but I have bin at this a long time and it would not my first choice
if you want a black rifle to hunt with go to a NR 308 and make it your big game rifle keep the 223 fore the small fun stuff
 
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AP said:
Have you had an opportunity to use a 60gr in your .222? Effectiveness? Its a nice little round and not as loud as many.
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As you know, I live on a farm. As you know, there are apple trees all over the place, and deer love apples. And you may know my wife has named all the deer and knitted them little toques and scarves.

Every once in awhile she will say something like "Have you seen Harold? I haven't seen him for awhile."

Changing the subject. Yes, the 222 is quiet....
 
Glock4ever said:
I killed 2 bucks (6 and 8 pointers) and 5 does with a .223 Rem and for the most part, they didn't die immediately. I think those of you who have taken game know what I mean but there was a bit of suffering in there and I personally don't like it. Walking even just 50 yards to a thrashing animal is not something I enjoy and I personally feel that we should try our best to make it as swift and painless as possible. When I saw my friend's 7mm Rem Mag and the difference in how fast the animal perished (literally like turning off a light switch), I switched up to a Magnum as well. It isn't required to do the job but I like the idea of using the most gun that I can handle comfortably to do the job and make it as fast as possible on the animal.
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You know, I don't think I believe thats the whole story. What bullets? What ranges? Where were these 7 deer hit?

Having shot and seen shot, 2 or three times that many whitetails and muleys with a 223, they all died rather promptly. A significant portion appeared to have been struck by lightening, so abruptly were their deaths. Black bears as well, hammered to the earth like they'd fallen asleep instantly. And for reference, there hasn't been any noticeable difference in death timelines between 223 executed deer, and 223AI, 243, 243AI, 6mm, 25/06, 264wm, '06, 7mm, etc, etc, etc..... What has been quicker for fall downs, has been light rifles, over heavy rifles like 45/70's or 300/338 Ultra's. Know what it proves?


Very little, other than in those particular cases, the bullets chosen with the shot angles in mind all worked as desired.......
 
I don't care if you believe that is the whole story. If you want to use a 223 fill yer boots. As mentioned in my first post 55 gn SP in the boiler room aka lung shot. All of them thrashed around until they bled out. First time I saw a 7mm kill a large buck, he dropped so fast it was incredible. 140 grain partition to lungs. The damage difference to their organs aren't even comparable. If you think that the damage difference between a 7mm or 300 mag is similar to a 223 than you must have no practical experience with these calibers. Maybe your idea of promptly and mine differ but if I walk 50 yards or even further and the animal is still alive that isn't prompt enough for me.
 
Effectively using .223 for white tail comes down to three things:
1) shot placement
2)shot placement
3) shot placement

I've seen it used quite effectively for deer. My friend took a nice whitetail buck with his Tavor.

I'd love to be able to take my AR out to the bush, but I'd still take my .30-06 bolt gun hunting as there is more margin for error in placement and ensuring a quick, clean hunt.
 
Ganderite said:
As you know, I live on a farm. As you know, there are apple trees all over the place, and deer love apples. And you may know my wife has named all the deer and knitted them little toques and scarves.

Every once in awhile she will say something like "Have you seen Harold? I haven't seen him for awhile."

Changing the subject. Yes, the 222 is quiet....
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:evil: You. I like you. :evil: Laugh2
 
KodiakHntr said:
You know, I don't think I believe thats the whole story. What bullets? What ranges? Where were these 7 deer hit?

Having shot and seen shot, 2 or three times that many whitetails and muleys with a 223, they all died rather promptly. A significant portion appeared to have been struck by lightening, so abruptly were their deaths. Black bears as well, hammered to the earth like they'd fallen asleep instantly. And for reference, there hasn't been any noticeable difference in death timelines between 223 executed deer, and 223AI, 243, 243AI, 6mm, 25/06, 264wm, '06, 7mm, etc, etc, etc..... What has been quicker for fall downs, has been light rifles, over heavy rifles like 45/70's or 300/338 Ultra's. Know what it proves?


Very little, other than in those particular cases, the bullets chosen with the shot angles in mind all worked as desired.......
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I'm glad you've had good luck ( or perhaps it's skill ) with it. But comparing it in the same league as a 25-06 or a 7mm is a bit ambitious, no? Some basic laws of physics and math relating to ft/lbs of energy would refute that claim somewhat. They are simply bigger and more powerful. Although if the larger rounds are exiting the animal, then it cannot absorb all of the energy of course. Then I can see a similar result. 1300 ft/ lbs totally absorbed(223) is likely as effective as 2000 ft/lbs which exits the far side (45-70)...how much bullet energy was used in dirt on the far side of the animal?
But a 223 isn't a 25-06 or 7mm, it's just not as powerful. A more powerful round gives room for a margin of error.
 
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