223 reloads not chambering fully

[Pr589]

bad advice, if you try and shove .020" of brass into the case you will crumple it. Not only that, but you can't run a loaded round into a sizing die, it won't fit with a bullet. The die makes the neck very small, then the expander opens it back up to seat a bullet.

While this may chalk one up in the annals of lethal curiosity and bad ideas, I decided to test these assertions by running some fully loaded 223 (77 SMK over 25 grains of Varget) into a Forster sizing die, screwed down a touch more than usual (I size to SAAMI max length) with the decapping pin removed. The sizing process was uneventful and seemed no different than with an empty case. The resulting rounds were SAAMI minimum as measured in my case gauge and dropped in and out of my AR's chamber without difficulty. Pulled a round and saw no signs of over-crimping and the seating depth of the projectiles was unchanged from prior to the sizing operation.

Shot 5 of these at the range today taking some precautions in case of the big Kaboom and pulled the trigger with a heavily gloved hand and......the gun went bang in a totally uneventful manner. The same happened with all other rounds.

Now I'm not going to say sizing a fully loaded round is a good idea nor am I trying to dismiss other folks' experience but thought this was an interesting experiment. Of course, differences in equipment, components and technique might result in completely different results and the risk of igniting a round while sizing while small, would likely be catastrophic. Not planning on doing this again.

 

[bigedp51]

While this may chalk one up in the annals of lethal curiosity and bad ideas, I decided to test these assertions by running some fully loaded 223 (77 SMK over 25 grains of Varget) into a Forster sizing die, screwed down a touch more than usual (I size to SAAMI max length) with the decapping pin removed. The sizing process was uneventful and seemed no different than with an empty case. The resulting rounds were SAAMI minimum as measured in my case gauge and dropped in and out of my AR's chamber without difficulty. Pulled a round and saw no signs of over-crimping and the seating depth of the projectiles was unchanged from prior to the sizing operation.

Shot 5 of these at the range today taking some precautions in case of the big Kaboom and pulled the trigger with a heavily gloved hand and......the gun went bang in a totally uneventful manner. The same happened with all other rounds.

Now I'm not going to say sizing a fully loaded round is a good idea nor am I trying to dismiss other folks' experience but thought this was an interesting experiment. Of course, differences in equipment, components and technique might result in completely different results and the risk of igniting a round while sizing while small, would likely be catastrophic. Not planning on doing this again.

Now pull one of the bullets from these loaded cases you full length resized and measure the bullet diameter that was inside the case neck and then outside the neck. When you do this please tell us how much smaller the bullet diameter is and how much thinner the case necks are. Meaning this was a very bad idea unless you used a full length bushing die with the bushing removed or a body die.

 

[laurencen]

They might very well chamber in a different .223
I wouldn't go through all the work that you spoke of, I bet they'll chamber in a sloppy gun.

I just do not have a sloppy 223, the fellow was bolt action and unfortunately when he needed home care the LEO removed all firearms,

 

[laurencen]

update, pulled a hundred, saved powder but left primer in, resized as per spec, trimmed cases, they were anywhere from 0.15 to 0.03 over length, de-burred and reloaded, they work great, now the issue I found, during resizing 1 in 3 cases split on the neck, you could feel it split, always on the expand or down stroke of the press, my first guess is the cases are hard and not stretching however had these cases been fired they would obviously be expanded, these cases are during the cycle stretched, shrunk then re stretched, any ideas at to why the high split rate, visually inspecting after pulling no sign of splitting, they are not splitting when expanding during the up cycle prior to sizing.

 

[bigedp51]

The cases had split necks because the brass had been reloaded so many time the brass in the case necks became work hardened. Just like bending a paper clip over and over until it is broken.

Do yourself a favor and buy new brass and get rid of the second hand cases you have that you do not know history of and how many times they were reloaded.

Safety comes first when reloading and its your face next to the cartridge when you pull the trigger.

 

[stubblejumper]

While this may chalk one up in the annals of lethal curiosity and bad ideas, I decided to test these assertions by running some fully loaded 223 (77 SMK over 25 grains of Varget) into a Forster sizing die, screwed down a touch more than usual (I size to SAAMI max length) with the decapping pin removed. The sizing process was uneventful and seemed no different than with an empty case. The resulting rounds were SAAMI minimum as measured in my case gauge and dropped in and out of my AR's chamber without difficulty. Pulled a round and saw no signs of over-crimping and the seating depth of the projectiles was unchanged from prior to the sizing operation.

Shot 5 of these at the range today taking some precautions in case of the big Kaboom and pulled the trigger with a heavily gloved hand and......the gun went bang in a totally uneventful manner. The same happened with all other rounds.

Now I'm not going to say sizing a fully loaded round is a good idea nor am I trying to dismiss other folks' experience but thought this was an interesting experiment. Of course, differences in equipment, components and technique might result in completely different results and the risk of igniting a round while sizing while small, would likely be catastrophic. Not planning on doing this again.

In order for that to happen, your loads would have to have little to no neck tension. With a proper neck tension of .001" to . 002", the only way that the loaded round is going to fit into the die, is if the bullet is swaged down that .001" to .002", as you force the loaded round into the sizing die.

 

[ry-guy]

Chamber one and eject it, check the bullet to see if it has any marks on it that may look like the rifling. The OAL may be a bit long and it might be hitting the lands. If not it is the case length. My 5.56 will likely eat em. Send over the lot for disposal.

 

[Pr589]

Now pull one of the bullets from these loaded cases you full length resized and measure the bullet diameter that was inside the case neck and then outside the neck. When you do this please tell us how much smaller the bullet diameter is and how much thinner the case necks are. Meaning this was a very bad idea unless you used a full length bushing die with the bushing removed or a body die.

This is a good learning experience for me. Last night I sized a brass case then seated a bullet (no powder or primer). The bullet diameter as you might expect was mic'd at 0.2235". I then sized the loaded round with the die screwed down a little more, then pulled the bullet and remeasured.

The bullet diameter measured after sizing was 0.2185". So the bullet was swaged down by 0.005" by the sizing operation. What's interesting is that without mic'ing the bullet, there is no visible sign of over-crimping.

I can see this screwing with accuracy, raising pressures and likely introducing key-holing to the rounds.

 

[cosmic]

OP - From reading the various posts its not clear to me whether the headspace is excessive or the case length. Why don't you pull a bullet on an offending case, and start trimming only - see if the case fits. If trimming solves the problem, them you can save yourself a lot of work (and split necks), by avoiding the resizing process. Heck - even better if you can trim with the primer and possibly the powder in situ.