223 Remington being picky

DGY

DGY

CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Rating - 98.3%
57   1   0
Good day all, I’m kind of new to reloading small chambering, I did some 222 Remington a while back and I had a data form the previous owner, same with the 257 AI I had, but now I have a CZ 600 lux 223 Remington, with a really short throat but a 1:9 twist, I find that even 55gn bullets at 0.025” from the land sits the bullets really deep in the case. Anyway, I was wondering if 223 can be tricky to reload for( I didn’t think so, but so far it is harder than most other cartridges I’ve played with ).
I tried 2 different powder so far, varget and h335 not really impressed.
Next I have cfe223 and blc2 to try out.
Brass are hornady, primers are Winchester small rifles( never used those in the past, I’m more of a federal and cci guy).
Oh and bullets are 55gn vmax.

Coal to land is 2.2250” and I loaded them at 2.2000”.
Any suggestions/ideas/what works for you etc are welcome!
image.jpg
 
Any history on this rifles accuracy potential or are you starting at ground zero...Seems like a strange combination faster twist with short throat when the opposite is the most advantageous.

Of the many .223 I reload for using the same powders you have tried...None of them are finicky and shoot most anything I feed them very accurate...All have normal or longer throats with 1/12 to 1/7 twist barrels.

What kind of accuracy are you getting ?
 
Just send the rifle here, I have great luck at tripping over my own feet, and still get a decent grouping load.:LOL:

If it's new, maybe a few hundred rounds will polish the barrel some. Years ago I owned a Savage Stevens that shot decently, but after a 500 pack of PMC and a few hundred other rounds, it turned into a different rifle, especially with reloads. Try some factory ammo, see how different brands do for groups, and consider the best shooting basic factory fodder the starting point for what you're doing.

I'll echo what Lastgun said, I never found the 223 to be more or less fussy than anything else. Same brand/lot of brass, a powder that fills case to at least touching OR compression, cases trimmed, bit of crimp, and not quite kissing the lands. That's pretty much my start point, and go from there.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DGY
A quick Google AI search on your problem provides this info that confirms your experience:

Based on user reports for the CZ 600 Lux in .223 Rem, the throat is notably short, requiring seating depths significantly shorter than the standard SAAMI maximum COAL (Cartridge Overall Length) of 2.260" to avoid jamming into the lands. [1]
Key Findings on Throat Length:
  • Short Throat Reports: Owners have reported measuring maximum COAL (jam to lands) as short as 2.094" (using a 70gn Speer Varmint bullet) and 2.168" (using a 50gn Hornady ECX) in .223 Rem.
  • Implication: Despite the 1:9 twist rate capable of stabilizing heavier bullets, the short throat requires using lighter/shorter bullets or seating longer bullets quite deep.
  • Actionable Advice: It is recommended to perform a custom chamber cast or take measurements with your specific bullet profiles, as the, "short throat" is a common finding, say owners. [1, 2, 3]
Note: This information pertains specifically to reported user experiences in the .223 caliber, which is commonly associated with tighter tolerances or shorter throats in this specific model line. [1]
 
  • Like
Reactions: DGY
I have a CZ 600 Alpha in 223 Remington. I found the chamber to be pretty tight as well. Not as much as yours though. I wasn't able to shoot the heavier 75gr bullets I intended too, I should have paid more attention to the "mini action" part and not just twist rate.

I did get 55gr VMax's to shoot a little under 1". I was able to get 2.3" for an OAL and I used N140. I ended up going with the Speer tnt hp 55gr as I got a 10rnd group just under an inch, and I would get "flyers" with the Vmax's. The factory stock on the Alpha model is quite flimsy so I attribute some of accuracy issues to it though.

N135 gave me pretty good results as well. I did use CFE223 and wasn't impressed. But its burn rate is pretty close to N140 if I recall correctly so I could see it working for you.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DGY
My 8 twist Tikka CTR shoots the 55gr Vmax well, it also has a short freebore (2.227" OAL @ .039" off lands). I used Hodgdon H322

Don't spend too much time on powders that don't group in early testing. Try different ones on hand and see if something works. The Vmax generally group tight, but some guns may not be fond of them. Then try a different projectile like a 55gr Sierra TVK, 55gr Nosler BT or Varmageddon Tipped
 
  • Like
Reactions: DGY
Lastgun said:
Any history on this rifles accuracy potential or are you starting at ground zero...Seems like a strange combination faster twist with short throat when the opposite is the most advantageous.

Of the many .223 I reload for using the same powders you have tried...None of them are finicky and shoot most anything I feed them very accurate...All have normal or longer throats with 1/12 to 1/7 twist barrels.

What kind of accuracy are you getting ?
Click to expand...
New rifle to me and I think that rifle wasn’t shot much or at all. 10 shots group in 2” … IMG_0112.jpeg
 
Thanks guys lots to test yet, I have a few choices of bullets so I can do more testing. Next week I will get either the cci or federal small rifle primers to test too.
 
Always good to make sure stock and barreled action are torqued properly, and make sure nothing loose in the scope mounts. If it continues to shoot a bit loose, I'd try a different scope on it that you know performed well on a different rifle. A bit of a pain to do but it can save lots of time in the long run
 
  • Like
Reactions: DGY
todbartell said:
Always good to make sure stock and barreled action are torqued properly, and make sure nothing loose in the scope mounts. If it continues to shoot a bit loose, I'd try a different scope on it that you know performed well on a different rifle. A bit of a pain to do but it can save lots of time in the long run
Click to expand...
Yes thanks, I did all that yesterday other than the scope switch, and I brought the bore back to bare metal. I have a bunch of hornady factory ammo to shoot before restarting testing as fouling shots!
I also lightened the trigger pull to the lightest setting… but the wind today is crazy so I will wait for a calmer day te resume testing.
 
I as well started handloads for my son's 223 Remington, first time for me. His rifle is a Winchester 1885 Low Wall 1-12 twist. It did not like the 60 grain Nosler Partition with Benchmark and IMR-4895. I made another batch with 50 grain Noslter Ballistic Tip with Benchmark and Varget. My son hasen't shot them yet, I'm still waiting for results.

He did purchase a box of factory for his rifle whereas, they shot the best, so far.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DGY
The loads you list are the same I use and get sub MOA and less...Hopefully if the rifle is not sick you just have one of those barrels that is going to need a serious break in...The Varget group shows the barrel has a chance at accuracy...I'd stick with that load and do a real barrel break in...In a perfect world you should see those fliers gone in a few shoot clean cycles....Good luck.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DGY
Not helpful maybe but my ruger ranch gen ii in 5.56 Nato is an “easy button” for reloading.

I get great accuracy from all kinds of 55 and 60gr pills and it really loves to shoot 69, 75, and 77 grainers. From sub loads of 3gr titegroup to compressed (crunching) loads of H4895 and Varget.

Too bad about that CZ short throat.
 
I’d try a different bullet 53 g max always did better for me.
55g nosler works well too.
Target should be good with either of two.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DGY
Beeron said:
Not helpful maybe but my ruger ranch gen ii in 5.56 Nato is an “easy button” for reloading.

I get great accuracy from all kinds of 55 and 60gr pills and it really loves to shoot 69, 75, and 77 grainers. From sub loads of 3gr titegroup to compressed (crunching) loads of H4895 and Varget.

Too bad about that CZ short throat.
Click to expand...
Good for you!!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom