When this argument shows up, I always point out that the Europeans make no distinction. Their military and commercial ammunition is generally all made to the same specifications. They don't seem to have any concerns about the issue. It seems to be a made in the US problem.
.223 remington versus 5.56 x 45 mm NATO - is it safe to interchange???
- Thread starter Boltgun
- Start date
That was pointed out a couple of weeks ago in a similar thread on the same topic. But there does exist a couple of supernatural beings here on CGN that keep seeing oracles from the gun gods (SAMMI) which give rise to these prophetic messages of doom.
Dare anyone question the divinity of these revelations?
After all... why would any of the permanent voting members of SAMMI, such as Remington, Winchester, Black Hills, etc want their lovely sheep buying cheap milsurp when you can buy their expensive but Safe Sporting ammo for three times the cost. No there wouldn’t be any conflict here with SAMMI... after all there has been several reports of dangerous incidents occurring in the last 30 years people have been using 5.56 in 223 chambers. Let me see... I can name at least... ah none...(actually I did hear of a primer popping once, but come to think of it, I have heard of primers popping out in factory ammo too) but rest assured doom will happen, I can promise you that because I have seen the oracle on this subject...
More paranoid conspiracy theory. If you were right, the same thing would apply to 7.62 / .308, but it doesn't - SAAMI does not list 7.62 in .308 as an unsafe combination.why would any of the permanent voting members of SAMMI, such as Remington, Winchester, Black Hills, etc want their lovely sheep buying cheap milsurp when you can buy their expensive but Safe
http://tinyurl.com/ygvubc6
Gunnerlove
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Vancouver Island
Another internet rumour without basis.
Slowly, but surely, this topic is merging in a YOUR GUNSMITH IS WRONG internet fight ... Everyones a gunsmith here don't you know it yet???
So we heard it all about the 5.56 in .223 chamber, but YET we have to hear about an actual documented accident? Or does the Glock G22 kaboom group has started making pictures of .223 chambers KB with 5.56?
So we heard it all about the 5.56 in .223 chamber, but YET we have to hear about an actual documented accident? Or does the Glock G22 kaboom group has started making pictures of .223 chambers KB with 5.56?
- Location
- Kumankissmyass, BC
Slowly, but surely, this topic is merging in a YOUR GUNSMITH IS WRONG internet fight ... Everyones a gunsmith here don't you know it yet???
And a lawyer..
angrysoldier
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- under your bed
wow ive been saying they are interchangable for years, but here im called all sorts of names! lolol ive been in the army as a weapons tech for 13 years and i know you can shoot 556 from 223 and vis versa same goes with 308/7.62x 51. i think it will only matter for sure in high end bolt guns where the chanbers seem to be machined to tigher tolerences. i shoot alot of 556 out of my reminton 700 in 223 and you know what? im still here and in one peice.
hey but thats just my 2 cents and dont try it if your worried about it, the stress of worring will take years off of your life.
hey but thats just my 2 cents and dont try it if your worried about it, the stress of worring will take years off of your life.
Your position in the army is worth nothing here! Here is the internet !!! Your rank is directly proportioned to your number of posts, trader rating, and the logo on your thinfoil hat... We don't need no gunsmith or army weapon tech because we have wiki and google!
All that said, I will never fire any 5.56 in a .223 chamber because AlexD92 said it would wear the chamber ( I don't know how tho) and I will never buy a Glock G22 because Ken Hackatorn says they Kaboom...
Great advices for a safe lifestyle.
Don't want to stir the pot...but...
So then, what do you think the dimensions of these cases would be!!
Seems manufacturers often interchange them too!!
So then, what do you think the dimensions of these cases would be!!
Seems manufacturers often interchange them too!!
Folks,
As I have seen this show up regularly, and people on both sides of the coin continue to argue it, I am making this a sticky for those who want to refer to the governing body of the ammunition industry. That is the Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturing Institute also referred to as SAAMI.
Here is a comparion of the .223 Remington versus 5.56 x 45mm NATO chambers:
Further to that, this is a link to the unsafe arms and ammunition combination pages:
http://www.saami.org/Unsafe_Combinations.cfm
I hope this helps those that are not sure.
Boltgun
Seems to me your the paranoid one here. As far as conspiracy theory goes, is not SAMMI’s warning based on theory??? Interesting how CIP doesn’t share this same theory.
Equally interesting is how SAMMI has taken it upon themselves to issue this dire warning but makes no mention about the more dangerous, dire safety issues that arise when using (primarily sporting arms) non-cannelured, soft tipped ammunition with soft primers in a semi auto firearm.
No. Running 5.56 rounds in a SAAMI (not CIP, it's a different spec and organization and not relevant to the discussion unless one lives in Europe and/or shoots a CIP-spec .223 chambered gun) .223 chamber will (not theory) result in higher-than-spec pressures, because the chamber itself (in most cases) is rated for .223 pressures, and because the chamber design is different in any event. The 5.56 chamber will have lower pressures for a given round than a .223 chamber, due to the throat area etc. I'm interested in seeing pressure trace info to quantify - is it a little, or a lot? - but there's no doubt about some level of increase.
By analogy, your car's suspension is rated for a certain load. It then has a safety factor so everything stays attached if you go over a pothole. If you operate your car inside the design envelope, on relatively smooth roads, the suspension will last the life of the car. If you off-road it routinely, it won't. Same concept.
Wrong - A 223 Rem chamber is a 223 Rem chamber no matter where in the world it is tested. Though the 223 and 5.56 chamber can be/and are reamed to many slightly different dimensional variations, the warning in question issued by SAAMI applies to 223 Rem chambers and not to SAAMI spec chambers per se and thus the CIP/SAAMI contradiction. The problem for many firearms owners is in accurately deciphering this information.
In recent years manufacturers of both the 223 Rem and 5.56 Nato cartridges have pushed the envelope in cartridge development and design by making the projectiles heavier and longer thus requiring chambers be reamed with more leade for use of these new cartridges. Thus many of the newer 223/556 chamber designs mitigate many of these perceived potential pressure related safety issues.
Conversely SAAMI’s answer to this problem was to make a blanket statement deeming it an unsafe combination to use all 5.56 Nato in all 223 Rem chambers rather than to emphasize a procedure to effectively reduce the potential safety hazards associated with this issue.
So in closing, for many of us we simply revert to common sense when using 5.56 Nato in a 223 Rem chamber and implement safety procedures that are quite well outlined in Armalite‘s public bulletin on this topic, subject to the additional info provided above:
Why?
Good Day
1) Not wrong, I was referring to the pressure spec, albeit ungracefully.
2) Correct - the phrase "many of the newer" results in some extra risk, which leads to -
3) Yes, which I am comfortable with. I think we all understand that it isn't in the same "unsafe" category as, say, 38 Special+P in a 38 S&W chamber or 7.62x39 in 30-06 (if it will chamber and fire?) - safe / unsafe is not a binary, it's a continuum.
So... harking back to my on-road/off-road suspension analogy, it's still better to not routinely overpressure one's gun, assuming we have a "true" .223 chamber rather than one slightly modified or overbuilt (lug strength, wall thickness) because of this very issue. Even if the chamber is not-restrictive vis-a-vis 5.56, the round itself has more pressure than .223.
I respect your position, I just disagree with the actions that stem from it. So I'll leave it at "agree to disagree".
dangertree
Business Rep
- Location
- NL/ON/FL/PL
not to mention the two cartridges have very different pressure characteristics when ignited. I think that is more the reason not to exchange one for the other.
I'll explain it with smiles
5.56 round in 5.56 chamber
.223 round in 5.56 chamber
.223 round in .223 chamber
5.56 round in .223 chamber
5.56 in 223 is safe. 223 has more strict measurements, while 5.56 has more variations to measurements simply becase too many countries use and produce it. Therefore, to accomodate all the rounds, the limits are more flexible and throat is more flat to reduce presure (just in case)...
