.223: Savage Package vs. Remington 700 SPS Varmint?

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VictoriaShooter

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I'm a relatively new shooter, looking to make the jump from .22LR to something with a bit more punch in it. My primary interest lies in target shooting, and I don't really expect to be doing any hunting. The range I have a membership at tops out at about 300yds, though I expect I'd like to buy something I can shoot out to 500 - 600 yards eventually... Ideally I'd like to get into competitive precision target-shooting, though that's still quite a ways off.

A number of people (Friends, sales-people, and "that guy I talked to at the range once") have suggested that a .223 is a good center-fire cartridge to start with. From what I've read, I tend to agree, and I'm looking at a few different options. I think I've got things narrowed down to the following two choices:

A Remington 700 SPS Varmint, or a Savage Package 11FXP3.

From what I've learned/been told/read so far, the Remington will cost me a fair bit more (after putting a scope on it), is prettier, and better built. The Savage is cheaper, comes with a "not great, but not-a-piece-of-s**t" scope, and is equally as accurate.

Does anyone have thoughts on this? Am I understanding things correctly? Can anyone chime in with obvious advantages / disadvantages to either option? Are there any other options I should be looking at?

Input and thoughts would be much appreciated.
 
I am not 100% certain about either of these, however I do own many savage and 700 actions.

From What I know about these, the 11s do not have a heavy barrel, and are a bit light on wieght, however has nothing to do with accuracy as Savage is known for accuracy out of the Box. As for the SPS Varmint you are getting into more of a target rifle per say, with a better stock, and I think the Pro mark Trigger.

But its up to you what your budget or willing to spend.

Lots can be done with the 700
 
First off, welcome to CGN. Secondly I will say the Remington is nicer looking but better built, I don’t know about that. I own both. Each has their advantages and disadvantages.

I would recommend against getting the savage with a scope on it. If you want to do target shooting you should look at something a little different. A good scope would be something with adjustable turrets. Depending on what you want to spend there is lots of options out there. You could go with a Bushnell 3200 tactical, 4200 tactical, 6500 tactical. There is also Sightron. They are around the same price as Bushnell but are supposed to be better (I have not used one personally). Burris also makes a decent scope that is set up like the Bushnell for around the same price. You could also jump up to a leupold Mark 4 or a Nightforce. These will run you about $2000. I have 3 Mark 4’s and they are great.

As for the gun I have a 700 SPS varmint in 204 and they are fine except for the stock. I don’t like them they are too flimsy. And one thing with the SPS Varmint in .223 is that they are a 1-12 twist. This will be fine if you want to shoot store bought ammo. If you want to get into reloading and want to start shooting the heavy high BC bullets a faster twist rate will be best. Something like a 1-8 or 1-9. A slow twist like the 1-12 will most likely not stabilize the heavy bullets. An SPS Tactical might suit your needs better.

The Savage you were looking at is a 1-9 which is good but it is a sporter barrel. It would work great for hunting but will overheat when putting a lot of ammo through it in a range session. Look at the Savage 10FP. This is their law enforcement line and is a heavy barrel. This is the action I used to build my latest rifle. The new ones even have the acustock and a detachable mag and all the law enforcement rifles have an oversized bolt handle from the factory. Another nice feature of the savage is the ease in changing out the barrel. It is a little more cost effective. As for triggers and stocks and all the after market goodies Remington and Savage have a bout the same stuff available for each so that is a wash.

As far as you caliber choice I think you are right on the money there. There are lots of guys on here that punch paper with the .223 out to 1000 yards. With a little practice it should be quite achievable.

As far as which one to buy that is up to you. I just thought I would give you a little more info on each rifle and point you in the direction you are looking to go. And keep the questions coming. There are lots of guys willing to help out a new guy to the sport.
 
Talk about Apples to Oranges

The SPS varmint should be compared to the Savage 12FV

The Savage 11FXP3 should be compared to the Standard Remington SPS model


The Savage 11FXP3 has a 1-9 twist allowing you to use heavier bullets to buck the wind for the longer shots....The Rem in both models has a 1-12 twist which is only really good for up to 50gr-55gr bullets....The SPS Varmint has a heavy barrel and a adjustable trigger....Now if you look at the more comparable Savage 12FV it has the accutrigger which is hands down the best factory trigger but you get a 1-12 twist like the Remington....

The rifles you have picked are so different and for completely different purposes ones a Varmint/Target rifle and the other is a Hunting Rifle ones heavy meant for prone style shooting and the other is your standard hunting rifle that is light enough to be carried all day long.

For your future intended purpose I would be looking at Heavy Barrel fast twist guns like the Savage 12 series with a 1-9 twist so you can load some heavier bullets.
 
I shoot at VFGPA and I would be happy to let you have a look through either my 4200 or 3200 Tactical.
Of course I love rimfires so feel free to bring some .22lr 40gr lead rounds and you can see just how much fun it is to shoot one out to the limits of our range with a good scope.

Cheers,
Grant
 
Hi Victoria Shooter!

223 is an excellent choice. There are a few things i'll toss your way... Good quality scopes are essential... package deal scopes (and I know the package) are intended for hunting - at best. stay away from it.

Secondly, rifles for shooting targets and those designed for shooting critters differ greatly in their optimal features. You will want a heavy barrel for managing the heat you will generate (hunters shoot once or twice only, and want light barrels). You will want a stock that is more comfortable for shooting prone of off a bench. Hunting rifles are designed to be light and sholder fired.

You have already decided on a good caliber. If you do not reload your own ammo (an essential next-step in true precision shooting) then a 223 is a great option.

Understand that there are going to be some inherent limitations in accuracy using factory rifles and factory ammo. For the same reason you can't by Formula 1 and NAASCAR cars on the lot, the ultimate shooting rigs are a hybridized blend of custom bits. If you get the bug to do this and get really good at it, you will want to improve your rig, and having an upgradable platform is important.

You will not find a better platform than a Remington 700.

They make a model called a VLS SS Thumbhole that has all the attributes you will need or want to get going. It wants only for a match grade barrel to turn it into a tack-driving match winner, but that isn't required right away. The stock is confortable and sturdy, the action is strong and safe. The 700 action is the most universal and most upgradable action going, and many a winning shooter uses them in competition - including me.
 
I had the same dilemma for a while, until I decided to go Savage 10FP.

.223 Heavy Free-Floating Fluted Barrel, Muzzle Break, 1/9 ROT, accustock, accustrigger @ 1000$ tax included (thanx Frontier Fireamrs)

That's a very nice package for the price and the newest ones are awsome!

p1000842h.jpg
 
Nice rifle and if it shoots well, even better! Muzzle brakes are not allowed in any sort of target shooting competition and they are frankly unnecessary in a 223, but all the power to you. Have fun, enjoy!
 
You will not find a better platform than a Remington 700.
Click to expand...

pffff sure :rolleyes: .......The Savage 12 series is hands down better then the Remington 700's out of the box.....

1-9ROT > 1-12ROT
accutrigger > Xmark (I own both)

If your shooting long distance the 1-9ROT is a must for the .223 so you can load heavier bullets.....This eliminates the VLSS and most other Remington's aside from the tackticool rifles:ninja:.
 
OutL4w said:
I had the same dilemma for a while, until I decided to go Savage 10FP.

.223 Heavy Free-Floating Fluted Barrel, Muzzle Break, 1/9 ROT, accustock, accustrigger @ 1000$ tax included (thanx Frontier Fireamrs)

That's a very nice package for the price and the newest ones are awsome!

p1000842h.jpg
Click to expand...


I have the same rifle in .308 (and left-handed :D). Nice shooter, indeed. :D
 
I really enjoy mine, it's a way better shooter than I am. I took me about 2 months to decide which one to get between the Remington and Savage.

When you break down each rifles with it's option vs related cost the Savage will come out slightly in front of Remington.

Thought I have to admit that the SPS Tactical was very tempting, the sole idea of replacing the stock (since it's not a real free floating) made me chose Savage.

I will probably get the SPS Tactical in .308 next year just to own one :)
 
Cool. Thanks very much, everyone, for chiming in. Especially cdnredneck_t3 and Obtunded...

From what most folks have said, I think I'm leaning more towards a Savage, maybe (likely?) a 10 or a 12-series heavy-barrel. I don't custom-load yet, but that's a very obvious next-step for me, and it seems silly to get a 1-12 twist barrel if it's not going to cut it... It's too bad, really, as I like the look and upgradability of the 700 more, but the ONLY 1-9 twist Remington 700 is the VTR, which has an integrated muzzle brake. While I'm not planning on competitive shooting next week, or month, buying a gun that I can't use in a competition one day seems counter-productive.

The light barrel seems to rule out the 11FXP3 package I was considering.

The Savage 12FV jumps out as a decent option, especially price-wise (I'm a semi-broke student.) ... It's a 1-9 twist, heavy barrel, and has an AccuTrigger.

Any more thoughts?
 
srt4u2nv said:
pffff sure :rolleyes: .......The Savage 12 series is hands down better then the Remington 700's out of the box.....

Factory rifles all shoot the same. This is absolute bullsh*t. The 12 F-Class series have reputation for producing some great results, and are purpose-built, but there are plenty of poor shooters as well. I sell enough barrels to guys that like the gun, but not the results to know that even these rifles have some "Monday guns"

One of the fellows that placed in our recent 300-500M F-Class match in the FTR class was shooting a stock 700P. There are good an bad in every brand. I vehemently disagree one brand is more accurate than another.

My original comments referred to the upgrade potential, not the promised results from a factory gun. They're all a crap shoot no matter what brand you buy, but Remington components win hands-down for their preference by serious precision shooters.
Click to expand...
 
VictoriaShooter said:
It's too bad, really, as I like the look and upgradability of the 700 more, but the ONLY 1-9 twist Remington 700 is the VTR, The Savage 12FV jumps out as a decent option, especially price-wise (I'm a semi-broke student.) ... It's a 1-9 twist, heavy barrel, and has an AccuTrigger.

Any more thoughts?
Click to expand...

Or get a CZ Kevlar, single set trigger, great DM, excellent stock and a 9" twist

CZVarmit006.jpg

CZVarmit004.jpg

CZVarmit008.jpg
 
The 12FV should be a good pick. 26" 1-9 heavy barrel will be a very good starter gun and it will be easily upgradeable when the time comes. Check out http://www.mysticprecision.com/. He goes by mysticplayer here on CGN and can help you out with anything to do with the Savage rifles if you go that route. Plus he also carry's all kinds of reloading supplies and optics. Kinda of a one stop shopping center.
 
Factory rifles all shoot the same. This is absolute bullsh*t. The 12 F-Class series have reputation for producing some great results, and are purpose-built, but there are plenty of poor shooters as well. I sell enough barrels to guys that like the gun, but not the results to know that even these rifles have some "Monday guns"

One of the fellows that placed in our recent 300-500M F-Class match in the FTR class was shooting a stock 700P. There are good an bad in every brand. I vehemently disagree one brand is more accurate than another.

My original comments referred to the upgrade potential, not the promised results from a factory gun. They're all a crap shoot no matter what brand you buy, but Remington components win hands-down for their preference by serious precision shooters.
Click to expand...

I know there are good and bad in every bunch. I recently bought a 12fvss and it was defective savage gave me a bvss as a replacement and its sub moa with factory ammo...I also have a 700sps and it shot great out of the box.

The slower twist barrel and sub par trigger compaired to the savage limits what can be done with it in stock form...

From what the OP has posted he will be using it in stock form for quite some time so the better factory trigger and faster ROT barrel are major selling points....IMO

Once he is ready to get more serious he can get a pre-chambered barrel from mystic for less then $400....get the action trued and bedded in a nice BR fiber or lam stock and shoot 600yds with great percision.

I have no bias when it comes to rifles I own them all.....I post from my recent experience putting together a rifle very close to what the OP wants....mine is more for hunting so I went with a .22-250....

:cheers:
 
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