223 semi carbine not cycling properly on reloaded ammo.....??

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raysteel

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Hey all, Im new to reloading and I just picked up this used 223 semi carbine. I reloaded some 223 and I thought I was within spec but the rifle failed chamber fully the 1st and 2nd round. So I went thru all 5 and got 1 to fire. Then went back and double checked the manual, then reloaded a few more and tested those. The first one fired and cycled but failed to close the bolt all the way and all I got was "click". Took the 2 bullets out and reversed the order then they fired and cycled. Went back inside and did reloaded 3 more and did it again....Tried to feed the first 1 and the bolt didnt close all the way again.....Sooo Im sitting here scratching my head, Im within all the tolerances, I gauged them all prior to loading in mag and my charge is right in the middle of low/high according to manual.

With the mag out the bolt works great, doesnt catch and is smooth, closes all the way nicely....it has to be me and Im kinda lost.

I tried with some new American Eagle 223 and no issues what so ever on a 3 round test...worked just like it is suppose to.

Suggestions??
 
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Couple things to check:

Check your die setup - When you raise the ram all the way up with a case in the shell holder, does the die bottom out on the shell plate or can you see light between them? If so, lower the ram, give the die a 1/8 to 1/4 turn more and check to see if there is any visible light. It is possible the die isn't sizing the full length of the case.

Check your mag - When you were getting jams, were you resting the mag on the bench?
 
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Trinimon said:
Couple things to check:

Check your die setup - When you raise the ram all the way up with a case in the shell holder, does the die bottom out on the shell plate or can you see light between them? If so, lower the ram, give the die a 1/8 to 1/4 turn more and check to see if there is any visible light. It is possible the die isn't sizing the full length of the case.

Check your mag - When you were getting jams, were you resting the mag on the bench?
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I will recheck the die now and I did both, resting and standing. But the mag really isnt jamming, the bullet is getting into the chamber but the bolt just isnt closing all the way. If I give it a jolt the bolt oushes all the way in. But this only needs ti be done on reloaded ammo....off to the bench I go to check the die.
 
I just loaded 3 more rounds. I used a case gauge and sits very nice, not up even a bit. Loaded them in the mag and pulled the bolt to chamber the first round. Picks up the round and goes into chamber but the bolt will not close properly. I need to give it a bit of push still then I can fire but it still will not cylce the next round properly I have to give the bolt a push again....

If I use new store bought ammo I still have to push the bolt closed on the first round after I chamber it but it does cycle without any issue.

The die is set properly, I double checked and it does seem good. My case length is good and COAL is good and I have tried various lengths to see if that is the issue and it doesnt seem to matter........Maybe I need a bigger powder charge?? to cycle the bolt properly? But it seems odd to me that even a new store bought round will not chamber and set the bolt so its ready to fire without having to give to bolt a push the last 1/4" so its in place.....So Im still scratching my head
 
raysteel said:
Ok I will go give it another turn down. Fingers crossed
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check to see if the shoulder is squat ,I had an issue with the shoulder being the same size or a little bigger than the body. My bolt wouldn't close all the way unless I forced it. I'm new at it also,so just throwing this out ,as it seems similar to what I had going on.
 
With the ammo that is giving feeding issues. If it is chambered, if you try to extract them, can you do so easily or do you have to mortar the rifle while pulling the charging handle? I remember the first time I started reloading for my AR, I had feeding issues where I had to use the forward assist to chamber a round and mortar it to extract it. The fault was a few thou gap between my die and shell plate.

The problem you are describing does not seem like a low gas pressure issue, else you'd be having issues related to short stroking.

What rifle are you using? What bullets are you using and COAL?
 
Trinimon said:
With the ammo that is giving feeding issues. If it is chambered, if you try to extract them, can you do so easily or do you have to mortar the rifle while pulling the charging handle? I remember the first time I started reloading for my AR, I had feeding issues where I had to use the forward assist to chamber a round and mortar it to extract it. The fault was a few thou gap between my die and shell plate.

The problem you are describing does not seem like a low gas pressure issue, else you'd be having issues related to short stroking.

What rifle are you using? What bullets are you using and COAL?
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The ammo release fine moving the bolt forward then back, no issues. So YES to forward assist and NO to mortar to extract.

Its a Keltec SU16FX. Will have to get back to you on the COAL but went under the manual and tried different sizes as well as matching the store bought ammo, bullets are 55g FMJ
 
Brianma65 said:
check to see if the shoulder is squat ,I had an issue with the shoulder being the same size or a little bigger than the body. My bolt wouldn't close all the way unless I forced it. I'm new at it also,so just throwing this out ,as it seems similar to what I had going on.
Click to expand...

Im using a Hornady die set, not sure how I feel about it yet, I may go and get a RCBS or Lee tomorrow and see if it is possibly me setting up the Hornady wrong. How did you fix the issue?
 
raysteel said:
Im using a Hornady die set, not sure how I feel about it yet, I may go and get a RCBS or Lee tomorrow and see if it is possibly me setting up the Hornady wrong. How did you fix the issue?
Click to expand...

I had to make sure that my dies were kissing the shell plate and I applied a light crimp using a Lee factory crimp die. Now all my ammo cycle without any hangups. I eventually picked up a set of RCBS AR series Small Base dies.
 
Trinimon said:
I had to make sure that my dies were kissing the shell plate and I applied a light crimp using a Lee factory crimp die. Now all my ammo cycle without any hangups. I eventually picked up a set of RCBS AR series Small Base dies.
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Is the RCBS AR series a good die set? the best perhaps? If I am going to buy a set tomorrow I may as well get the best if I can, what is that worth aprox?
 
raysteel said:
Is the RCBS AR series a good die set? the best perhaps? If I am going to buy a set tomorrow I may as well get the best if I can, what is that worth aprox?
Click to expand...

You can't go wrong with RCBS dies. They're $45. from Brownells but I got raped when I bought them from Bass Pro in Vaughn for $69 (?).
 
When I was seating the bullet , I had the diie tuned down to far, it was seating the bullet but was also squaring the shoulder. I used my Calibers and measured the body, about a 1/4 inch from the shoulder , then measured the shoulder. The shoulder was wider than the body, thereby causing the cartridge not clambering smoothly. The bolt would close ,but not quite all the way, I'd have to give it a little pust. It would extract it easily though. Insert a factory end in the chamber and then pull it out by hand( it should come out easily, then try your reloads , push them all the way in and see if it's hard to pull out by hand. You can see the squat shoulder if you look close enough, looks like it has a ring around it. How did you set your seating die? I have the RCBS FL 2die set and they are working fine now, just had to set them up correctly. I've got about 300 reloads through my XCR-L , and not one issue. And I don't crimp. Go on you tube and watch them being set up with a empty case. Make sure to back your bullet seating depth pin all the way out. Put the case in the shell holder , run it to the top of the stroke, screw the seater die in until you feel it touch the mouth of the case, back the die up one full turn and lock it in place. Unscrew the seater pin a few turns , seat a bullet and then check COL. You may need to adjust your seater pin for bullit depth. This is how to do it without crimping. It's been working excellent for me. If you want to crimp , you screw your die in tighter, but all cases must be same length, or you'll squat them.
 
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raysteel said:
Im using a Hornady die set, not sure how I feel about it yet, I may go and get a RCBS or Lee tomorrow and see if it is possibly me setting up the Hornady wrong. How did you fix the issue?
Click to expand...

So you have the Hornady sizing die set wrong and your solution is to go buy a die set from another manufacturer? REALLY?

Your issue is entirely in the sizing die setup. Turn it 1/4 turn down and try it again till the thing properly closes on a finished round.

Case length and COAL have sweet FA to do with headspace and headspace is your problem right now.
 
raysteel said:
But it seems odd to me that even a new store bought round will not chamber and set the bolt so its ready to fire without having to give to bolt a push the last 1/4" so its in place.....So Im still scratching my head
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I'm guessing most guys reading your post missed this part. It sounds like the rifle has a problem if it won't chamber FACTORY LOADS in addition to your own handloads. I would look into the rifle and find out why the bolt needs to manually pushed closed every time you try to chamber a round. Certainly the recoil spring and bolt/carrier itself should function free of binding or interference.
As a test, pull back the charging handle all the way, then release it completely so that the full spring pressure is brought to bear on the bolt/carrier when in the process of chambering a round. If the bolt still won't close completely, then maybe a gunsmith needs to have a look a it.
 
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