223 vs 223AI?

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chuck nelson

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Has anyone used both these chambering's, and what is the realistic velocity difference between the two?

I'm trying to decide which reamer to run into barrel that will arrive in a few weeks. It's an 8 twist barrel and I will probably use the 75gr A-Max as my primary bullet in the rifle.

Thanks.
 
I have used both and have the Ackley [Wylde throat] reamer I made up years ago. Gain in velocity is 25fps. with a 80gr. Sierra. Not much, but it looks cute.

Varmint shooters and light bullets have claimed much more velocity increase from what I've read.
 
Chuck, save your money and go standard 223 for volume shooting or 22-250 Rem if horsepower is what you crave.

Most of the hype came about from Big Stick and Dogzapper (Steve Timm) and they've still got PLENTY of minions that run them in Rem 700's and Swirly stocks. They'll tell you it is the be all end all, but in all honesty they don't feed well (quite poorly actually) from a Rem 700, and there is NO way to get 22-250 speeds without some serious pressure (though folks to ram rod them and have chrony data to prove it).

It is the one Ackley cartridge that I've owned with feeding issues (ran the 22-250 AI, 7-08AI, 243 AI and 280 AI with flawless feeding).

I've HAD two 223 AI's (I'm a slow learner) and can guarantee you that there won't be a third in my cabinet...ever!
 
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Thanks. A bunch.

High volume shooting and forever barrel life was the goal. That's why the .223.

Funny thing about Steve Timm's .223 AI. I'd suspect it's seen more standard factory .223 ammunition than fire-formed loads. A product of a bunch of corporate sponsored dog shoots.
 
chuck nelson said:
Thanks. A bunch.

High volume shooting and forever barrel life was the goal. That's why the .223.

Funny thing about Steve Timm's .223 AI. I'd suspect it's seen more standard factory .223 ammunition than fire-formed loads. A product of a bunch of corporate sponsored dog shoots.
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Ain't that the truth!

I have been without a 223 Rem now for a few months (traded mine to my brother for some work) but have plans to get another someday....simply too much fun to shoot!
 
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I don't see any benefits whatsoever with a .223AI over a .223..Less trimming? I have a drill press mounted trimmer that really zips through the cases. Not to meniton .223 cases are cheap liek dirt.:)
 
Chuck, my original 223AI fed well with the standard box. The only time I had problems with it was when the rear spacer broke loose and was binding the spring, that was an easy fix of course. I had guys play with it and admit that if their 223AI's fed that well they would've kept them.

My new one with the lengthened mag box feeds better than the first one. It did take some massaging to do that. It feeds the improved cartridges as well as the factory 223, which is to say just fine, whether the round is a 50 V-Max or a 75 A-Max. Not kind of okay, but just fine and I'm fussy with my rifles.

No secret though some don't feed well. If you want a cookie-cutter rifle to be fine out of the box, I'd go 22-250. The small bolt face rounds can be problematic in the M700. If you want one of those perfect out of the box, go Winchester or Howa.
 
FWIW I have a savage that wouldn't feed 223 from the magazine, if bullets were loaded full length for the box. I used it as a single. Rechambered to AI figuring it was a single shot anyway. Feeds like snot, go figger. If you are only getting 25 fps more vel. you need to work on it. Should get at least 75., up to 150 depending on bullet. I have rifles in 223 AI and would recommend the cart.
I made up a tool to move the bullets in ivi hardpoints out (like an RCBS puller), then fire them in the AI and you are in business. The ivi shoot min. of barn door anyway.
Also the cool factor, the liile fatties are cute. Mark
 
RickF said:
Chuck, my original 223AI fed well with the standard box. The only time I had problems with it was when the rear spacer broke loose and was binding the spring, that was an easy fix of course. I had guys play with it and admit that if their 223AI's fed that well they would've kept them.

My new one with the lengthened mag box feeds better than the first one. It did take some massaging to do that. It feeds the improved cartridges as well as the factory 223, which is to say just fine, whether the round is a 50 V-Max or a 75 A-Max. Not kind of okay, but just fine and I'm fussy with my rifles.

No secret though some don't feed well. If you want a cookie-cutter rifle to be fine out of the box, I'd go 22-250. The small bolt face rounds can be problematic in the M700. If you want one of those perfect out of the box, go Winchester or Howa.
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The planning, for me, is the fun part and I don't do cookie cutter. If you hadn't noticed.:D As you know, it's pretty difficult to find someone to chat about this stuff with.

I'm a bit anal about feeding though, and if a model 70 is involved and it doesn't feed, I fix it. So it only seems logical that a little work would get those little buggers to feed if they didn't. But maybe not.

The .223 is what I'm after and I might just add a half an inch to my original planned barrel length and after a few thousand rounds rechamber to the AI version. It will be like a brand new rifle to play with for a hundred bucks. ;)
 
Chuck I've got a .223 AI built on a 700 SA w/ a 22" 1-8" Rock tube, and the feeding was terrible, until I knocked the spacer out of the mag box, and made a shorter one out of devcon putty. Now it feeds really well- just like the one in the video posted earlier actually. I left lots of space- I think I can load out to 2.60 if memory serves- and I think that's a help compared to say 2.45. Why leave just enough spce, when you can leave as much as you want when you're doing making the new spacer? I havn't done any Chrono work yet, so I can't tell you what the deal is w/ velocity. I really can't imagine there's that much benifit to the AI case, but then again, it's no hassle, so why not?
 
I have owned two 223 AIs, both rechambered factory rifles. The first was a HOWA, the second a Stevens 200. Both feed like fat boys at a seafood buffet. :cool:

RR now has the HOWA, and has posted here several times about his experience with it. It is a lights-out rifle all day long!

The Stevens was done to have a cheap knockabout that I wouldn't be worrying about beating up on a skidoo while hunting coyotes and wolves. Bill Leeper did the work, and the rifle not only feeds well, but shoots sub-MOA out to 300 meters, which is plenty for this purpose.

40 gr Ballistic tips run over 3900 fps, and 75 gr A-Max go 3000 out of the twenty-two inch barrel, and cases last forever. Fireforming Winchester white box 45gr factory ammo gets honest 3/4" groups.

Not a lot to complain about for around $500 total. :D

Ted
 
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