.223 vs .308

johNTO said:
I was not aware of this!
So there are no short/long term issues shooting 5.56 in my .223 SPS tactical.....looking forward to my next range session:)
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A few years back when the DND was changing over from 7.62 to 5.56 and they were still supplying ammo to the DCRA for annual competitions, many target rifle shooters had .223 rifles built so they could shoot the new 5.56 ammo. Thousands and thousand of 5.56 rounds were fired from .223's without one problem.
 
maynard said:
A few years back when the DND was changing over from 7.62 to 5.56 and they were still supplying ammo to the DCRA for annual competitions, many target rifle shooters had .223 rifles built so they could shoot the new 5.56 ammo. Thousands and thousand of 5.56 rounds were fired from .223's without one problem.
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I've read an explanation about different throat length etc. That said I've fired at least 500 5.56 mm (55 and 62 gr) rounds through various rifles and never had a single problem. No hard extractions, no primer issues, nothing. About the only thing I can say is every time I've fired 5.56 through my .223 the twist hasn't matched the bullet weight for best accuracy.

:D I brought my Rem 700 to the range when the CF first switched to the M-16. The boys were laughing because it wasn't grouping worth a crap. That was my first experiance with a bullet too heavy for the twist (SS-109 in a 1 in 12).
 
I just read the specs for my SPS .223 and it does indicate 5.56 if fine!
Since the twist is the same as my AR(1-9) I'll need to find a 5.56 bullet grain that will give me some decent accuracy.
OP...so for the thread hi-jack
 
johNTO said:
I just read the specs for my SPS .223 and it does indicate 5.56 if fine!
Since the twist is the same as my AR(1-9) I'll need to find a 5.56 bullet grain that will give me some decent accuracy.
OP...so for the thread hi-jack
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I've never shot any through my 1 in 9 but if you can get some 5.56 like the SS-109 (62 gr) that should work better than the 55 gr ball. Any 68-69 gr HPBT match would be a good place to start for reloads.
 
johNTO said:
I just read the specs for my SPS .223 and it does indicate 5.56 if fine!
Since the twist is the same as my AR(1-9) I'll need to find a 5.56 bullet grain that will give me some decent accuracy.
OP...so for the thread hi-jack
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Your barrel will work with bullet weights up to 70 grains.
 
slugfest said:
Okay thanks! So now I have to ask... my understanding of f class was that it was long range. So what's the diff between "f" and "tr?" Just the calibre allowed?

But back on topic.. I have never shot .308... but I do love recoil. Makes you know you've caused some damage :D haha. But what bad habits come from it? I'm not a rich kid by any means so I would like to buy one rifle and keep it for a few years, rather than buy and sell till I get it right.

Also, is it true that reloads end up costing half of what you'd pay at a store?
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308 does kick a little, but in a target, heavy barreled rifle, it should not cause flinching. I wouldn't hesitate to recommend it. However, .223 is cheaper to shoot and there is no recoil at all.
 
johNTO said:
I just read the specs for my SPS .223 and it does indicate 5.56 if fine!
Since the twist is the same as my AR(1-9) I'll need to find a 5.56 bullet grain that will give me some decent accuracy.
OP...so for the thread hi-jack
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No worries for hi jack, I find all this interesting so by all means go for it! I had no idea about any of this so no worries. I think .308 is the way to go.. I have other guns To shoot cheap so one that is a little more pricey is ok. Plus, I love recoil :D
 
slugfest said:
No worries for hi jack, I find all this interesting so by all means go for it! I had no idea about any of this so no worries. I think .308 is the way to go.. I have other guns To shoot cheap so one that is a little more pricey is ok. Plus, I love recoil :D
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I will be shooting my .223 in a couple weeks at the DCRA matches. Before the Grang Agg starts there are some warm up matches called the .223 Challenge. We will be shooting from 300m back to 900m. After the warm up fun matches are done I will change back to my .308 target rifle for the Grand Agg.
 
Before reading this thread, I honestly didn't know that the .223 was such an accepted long range caliber. The problem you'll run into with the .223 at long range is that, being a much lighter bullet, the effects of wind and other factors are going to be noticeably greater than they will be with a .308. That said, until you're getting out past 500m-600m, either caliber is going to perform well (provided the .223 is throwing heavy bullets and has a fast twist rate). As others have pointed out, shooting a gun with lighter recoil to start with can help prevent you from developing nasty habits like flinches.
 
redshooter said:
:D Then you want one of these http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.30-378_Weatherby_Magnum. If you go with a bigger bullet you can get even more recoil like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FCY3_5Bg1M.

That last link proves some people have a rather twisted sence of humor.
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Haha I'd love to get my hooks on that. At the range there was a fella' with a .458 magnum if I remember correctly. Looks like fun to shoot! And I've always wanted to try a .338. Maybe one day! And unfortunately the video won't work as I only have a crappy smartphone. Not available on mobile (who the fcuk knows why.)
 
kerkvliet said:
Before reading this thread, I honestly didn't know that the .223 was such an accepted long range caliber. The problem you'll run into with the .223 at long range is that, being a much lighter bullet, the effects of wind and other factors are going to be noticeably greater than they will be with a .308. That said, until you're getting out past 500m-600m, either caliber is going to perform well (provided the .223 is throwing heavy bullets and has a fast twist rate). As others have pointed out, shooting a gun with lighter recoil to start with can help prevent you from developing nasty habits like flinches.
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Using 80 gr bullets in a 1:8 twist barrel. Elevations and wind are almost the same as a .308 using 155 SMK all the way out to 1000 yards.
 
maynard said:
Using 80 gr bullets in a 1:8 twist barrel. Elevations and wind are almost the same as a .308 using 155 SMK all the way out to 1000 yards.
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Interesting, that I did not know. I guess I've somehow been fooled into thinking that the .223 is a <400m caliber. I suppose this is a different game than assault rifles though. After you saying that the .223 and .308 could be similar in external ballistics I looked at some charts and you are indeed correct. Provided you're just punching paper, and the bullet doesn't need to have any significant energy on impact, the .223 is a legitimate choice.
 
maynard said:
Using 80 gr bullets in a 1:8 twist barrel. Elevations and wind are almost the same as a .308 using 155 SMK all the way out to 1000 yards.
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Maynard your right most 80 gr 224 have a BC of 400 to 455 and like you say they run very close to the .308win with 155gr bullets 450to 500ish BC
But change the twist to 1/7 and shoot 90gr Berger VLDs at 551 BC they are much better at 1000y than the 155gr .308win
manitou
 
I'd say the two major advantages of a .223 over a .308 are cost of reloading and availability of cheap factory ammo (for practice) and the fact that you can shoot a .223 all day without tiring ( no recoil in a target-weight rifle ). The .308 is more forgiving on reloading ( a half grain above or below isn't so significant as in a .223 ) and it is easier to see bullet holes at distance. Other than that, it is really a matter of personal preference. I shoot both and prefer .308 but, if pressed, I can't really explain why :)
 
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=384761

You guys might enjoy this thread. Lots of other info on my website.

Over the last years, I have shot a HUGE amount of 223 all the way out to a mile. Yes, you read that right.

As to accuracy, 308 and 223 are comparable with the 223 being EASIER for a novice shooter to get better results faster - recoil never makes you shoot better especially when off a pod.

Costs are lower too.

With a good scale, loading is no different between these 2 cases.

As to LR ballistics, they are comparable. The 80gr 22's = 155's. The 90gr = 185's

With some new powders and careful tuning, the ballistics will equal a hotrodded 308 and 208/210's.

Dare I say, beat them.... :)

The issue of bullet weight is a ways from being resolved definitely but a growing number of shooters are doing very well at 1000yds and further with the 223 (UK record was just tied/broken by a 223).

I know a number of shooters are shooting the 223 and more will start in the 2011 season. We will let the match results sort out what does or doesn't work

Jerry
 
kerkvliet said:
Interesting, that I did not know. I guess I've somehow been fooled into thinking that the .223 is a <400m caliber. I suppose this is a different game than assault rifles though. After you saying that the .223 and .308 could be similar in external ballistics I looked at some charts and you are indeed correct. Provided you're just punching paper, and the bullet doesn't need to have any significant energy on impact, the .223 is a legitimate choice.
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It isn't much of a game getter at 1000 but you wouldn't want to be hit by one of those 80 gr pills or try to catch one in a catchers mitt. They are still supersonic at 1000 and won't bounce off coroplast target boards:)
 
A few years ago i shot 308 with 155 Sierra Match and 223 with 80 gr Sierra at 1000 yds at the same target. I did this severl times.

When i examined the targets at home, I found that the 80 gr had slightly less wind drift. Today the new 90 VLD would mean even less wind drift than the 308.

I found the reduced recoil of a 223 lead to better marksmanship.
 
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