223 vs 5.56

rafael69

rafael69

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Hello

Can any one tell me if 5.56 is the same as 223. I am buying a Tavor and it shoots 5.56 and some people are telling me (guys at La Baron) that I can shoot 223. WHen I asked for a box of 5.56 nobody at Le Baron new what I was talking about. SO Who can tell me the truth about 5.56 vs 223.
 
'rafael' you are good to go on either ammo choice, to narrow down what may shoot the 'best' out of your rifle drop a line to 'CanAm' (CGN Sponsor) he sells ammo and the rifle you are soon to acquire.....
 
If your barrel is made to shoot 556 you are fine to shoot 223 Rem.
However, if your bbl is designed to shoot 223 rem, manufacturers does not recommend shooting 556 thru it.
 
I suggest using 5.56 as it has harder primers. The gun is designed for 5.56.

The PMC 223 ammo MAY have military primers, but I have not been able to confirm it yet.
 
jennis said:
'myth' I have mixed and matched 556/223 762/308 out of a myriad of firearms with nary a hiccup.....nary
Click to expand...

It is not a myth. Firearms, like all engineered products, have a huge safety factor incorporated into them, so that small misjudgements like the ones you describe won't have a catastrophic effect. That does not change the fact that you are operating your gun outside of its design envelope, and can expect shorter life and performance issues in the long run.
 
The one arguement I keep hearing is pressure differences - They are tested differently, and must handle proof loads at different pressures, in different locations, but I'm not convinced there is a huge discrepency in the overall pressures of the factory supplied ammunition between the two. If there was and it mattered, you'd have actual reports of catastrophic failures in .223 chambered guns with 5.56 ammo.

I think there is a lot of CYA going on when people spell doom and gloom between the two.

Here is a good CYA press release from Winchester:

News and Press Releases

.223 Rem VS 5.56mm

Paul Nowak
5/4/2001
.223 Rem VS 5.56mm

There are a lot of questions about these two cartridges. Many people think they are identical - merely different designations for commercial and military. The truth is that, although somewhat similar, they are not the same and you should know the differences before buying either cartridge.


The cartridge casings for both calibers have basically the same length and exterior dimensions.
The 5.56 round, loaded to Military Specification, typically has higher velocity and chamber pressure than the .223 Rem.
The 5.56 cartridge case may have thicker walls, and a thicker head, for extra strength. This better contains the higher chamber pressure. However, a thicker case reduces powder capacity, which is of concern to the reloader.
The 5.56mm and .223 Rem chambers are nearly identical. The difference is in the "Leade". Leade is defined as the portion of the barrel directly in front of the chamber where the rifling has been conically removed to allow room for the seated bullet. It is also more commonly known as the throat. Leade in a .223 Rem chamber is usually .085". In a 5.56mm chamber the leade is typically .162", or almost twice as much as in the 223 Rem chamber.
You can fire .223 Rem cartridges in 5.56mm chambers with this longer leade, but you will generally have a slight loss in accuracy and velocity over firing the .223 round in the chamber with the shorter leade it was designed for.
Problems may occur when firing the higher-pressure 5.56mm cartridge in a .223 chamber with its much shorter leade. It is generally known that shortening the leade can dramatically increase chamber pressure. In some cases, this higher pressure could result in primer pocket gas leaks, blown cartridge case heads and gun functioning issues.
The 5.56mm military cartridge fired in a .223 Rem chamber is considered by SAAMI (Small Arm and Ammunition Manufacturers Institute) to be an unsafe ammunition combination.


Before buying either of these two types of ammunition, always check your gun to find what caliber it is chambered for, then buy the appropriate ammunition. Most 5.56mm rounds made have full metal jacket bullets. Performance bullets - soft points, hollow points, Ballistic Silvertips, etc. - are loaded in .223 Rem cartridges. Firing a .223 Rem cartridge in a 5.56mm-chambered gun is safe and merely gives you slightly reduced velocity and accuracy. However we do not recommend, nor does SAAMI recommend, firing a 5.56mm cartridge in a gun chambered for the .223 Rem as the shorter leade can cause pressure-related problems.

Winchester Law Enforcement Ammunition

East Alton Illinois
 
Hello Guys

I just received the gun, and on the stock its has 223 written on it. All the reading I do about the gone it never ever mentions anything about 223, but for some reason that is what is written on the stock. Is it possible that Tavor makes the 223 for civilians and the 5.56 for military.
 
The Winchester quoted above is correct. I was involved withthe introduction of a 223 rifle once, and it was assumed that a lot of shooters would use 5.56 in it, so the chamber was cut with a 5.56 throat. This also made it possible for the handloaded to load heavier bullets seated out further in the 1:9 barrel.

If a rifle has a 100% SAAMI 223 chamber, it is easy to touch the throat with a throating reamer and push it back a bit. I have done this many, many times.

If youa re buying a 223 reamer, i recommend the Wylde design. It shoots both 5.56 and long match bullets.
 
beltfed said:
The one arguement I keep hearing is pressure differences - They are tested differently, and must handle proof loads at different pressures, in different locations, but I'm not convinced there is a huge discrepency in the overall pressures of the factory supplied ammunition between the two. If there was and it mattered, you'd have actual reports of catastrophic failures in .223 chambered guns with 5.56 ammo.

I think there is a lot of CYA going on when people spell doom and gloom between the two.

Here is a good CYA press release from Winchester:

News and Press Releases

.223 Rem VS 5.56mm

Paul Nowak
5/4/2001
.223 Rem VS 5.56mm

There are a lot of questions about these two cartridges. Many people think they are identical - merely different designations for commercial and military. The truth is that, although somewhat similar, they are not the same and you should know the differences before buying either cartridge.


The cartridge casings for both calibers have basically the same length and exterior dimensions.
The 5.56 round, loaded to Military Specification, typically has higher velocity and chamber pressure than the .223 Rem.
The 5.56 cartridge case may have thicker walls, and a thicker head, for extra strength. This better contains the higher chamber pressure. However, a thicker case reduces powder capacity, which is of concern to the reloader.
The 5.56mm and .223 Rem chambers are nearly identical. The difference is in the "Leade". Leade is defined as the portion of the barrel directly in front of the chamber where the rifling has been conically removed to allow room for the seated bullet. It is also more commonly known as the throat. Leade in a .223 Rem chamber is usually .085". In a 5.56mm chamber the leade is typically .162", or almost twice as much as in the 223 Rem chamber.
You can fire .223 Rem cartridges in 5.56mm chambers with this longer leade, but you will generally have a slight loss in accuracy and velocity over firing the .223 round in the chamber with the shorter leade it was designed for.
Problems may occur when firing the higher-pressure 5.56mm cartridge in a .223 chamber with its much shorter leade. It is generally known that shortening the leade can dramatically increase chamber pressure. In some cases, this higher pressure could result in primer pocket gas leaks, blown cartridge case heads and gun functioning issues.
The 5.56mm military cartridge fired in a .223 Rem chamber is considered by SAAMI (Small Arm and Ammunition Manufacturers Institute) to be an unsafe ammunition combination.


Before buying either of these two types of ammunition, always check your gun to find what caliber it is chambered for, then buy the appropriate ammunition. Most 5.56mm rounds made have full metal jacket bullets. Performance bullets - soft points, hollow points, Ballistic Silvertips, etc. - are loaded in .223 Rem cartridges. Firing a .223 Rem cartridge in a 5.56mm-chambered gun is safe and merely gives you slightly reduced velocity and accuracy. However we do not recommend, nor does SAAMI recommend, firing a 5.56mm cartridge in a gun chambered for the .223 Rem as the shorter leade can cause pressure-related problems.

Winchester Law Enforcement Ammunition

East Alton Illinois
Click to expand...

Would somebody be able to offer a little more insight into this?
If I was to load a commercial .224 bullet into a 5.56mm case would it most likely provide better accuracy than a .223 case would? The gun in question is chambered 5.56

Boy this reloading stuff is fun, hard on the OCD though.
 
Farlsincharge said:
Would somebody be able to offer a little more insight into this?
If I was to load a commercial .224 bullet into a 5.56mm case would it most likely provide better accuracy than a .223 case would? The gun in question is chambered 5.56

Boy this reloading stuff is fun, hard on the OCD though.
Click to expand...

No. Actually using quality commercial case is the best choice. Whatever many use military case in competition with good result. The 5.56 chamber can help to load heavy bullet - 75 to 80 grains if you have the barrel twist to handle them.
Do a search on the net. Start here for more info : http://www.fulton-armory.com/556-vs-223-Chambers.htm
 
Farlsincharge said:
Would somebody be able to offer a little more insight into this?
If I was to load a commercial .224 bullet into a 5.56mm case would it most likely provide better accuracy than a .223 case would? The gun in question is chambered 5.56

Boy this reloading stuff is fun, hard on the OCD though.
Click to expand...

The differences are not in the physical sizes of the ammunition (their size is identical), but the dimensions of the chamber - and the major difference is in the throat - being longer in 5.56 (by a very small margin).
http://www.ar15barrels.com/data/223vs556.pdf

Some have stated that accuracy can take a hit with a 5.56 chamber, but I don't believe it makes that much difference. ymmv.
 
Bought some 5.56 for my .223 thinking it would work. Ended up taking it back and got more .223 after reading all the info I could on it. Some people have been ok mixing it but it is a risk.
 
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