22hornet bullet dia

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shooter177

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I just acquired 2 different 22 hornets, one is a 340c savage bolt action, and the othe is a older h&r 157 break action, how do I tell what bullet dia I need to use I have been told two different answers .223 & .224 ?
 
More important is the twist of the barrel. Some rifles will stabalize a bullet of 40 grains, but very iffy, or not satisfactory, with 45 grain.
 
I had a Sako with a .223 bore that patterned .224 bullets like a shotgun.Size can matter.I have a couple boxes of the smaller bullets I'm not using........Harold
 
You would think that .001" would not make any difference, but it can. My Model 70 will shoot good .224" bullets into one hole all day long, but .223" ones go all over the map. As I understand, only very early Hornets had the .223" bore, so chances are that you should use the larger bullets. I would try the .224" bullets first. They are much more available.

Hugh
 
New CZ's have .223 barrels.

All the factory ammo has .224 bullets.

Draw your own conclusions.

I'm with the guys that say to watch the bullet weight first, then the diameter.

Even shape differences between two bullets of the same weight, can make or break the deal, so it never hurts to try a few different variations before you start buying bulk, eh.

Cheers
Trev
 
yeah, I was only referring to safety regarding bullet diameter, not necessarily accuracy. Accuracy is like anything else - some guns like some bullets, and dislike others. Regardless of the actual diameter, you pretty much have to try a selection of different bullets to discover which ones your particular rifles shoots best.
 
One thousands of an inch poses no safety risk.Accuracy can vary like .303 British being all over the map bore wise from wear,tear and manufacturers barrel specs........Harold
 
prosper said:
yeah, I was only referring to safety regarding bullet diameter, not necessarily accuracy. Accuracy is like anything else - some guns like some bullets, and dislike others. Regardless of the actual diameter, you pretty much have to try a selection of different bullets to discover which ones your particular rifles shoots best.
Click to expand...

Only living creatures with a thinking mind can decide what they like or don't like.
Rifles do not fit this catagory.
If a rifle shoots better with a certain bullet, or a certain load, than it does with another bullet or load, there is a reason for it.
Where bullets are concerned, it is easier to figure out, why one works better than another.
As you state, trying out different bullets is the way to go.
Twist of the barrel is a very important factor in this. I'm not sure what the twist of the early Brno's were, but 40 grains was about as heavy as they would shoot, with about one MOA accuracy.
If the bullet was a normal shape and 40 grains, it didn't matter to mine, whether it was of .223 or .224 size.
A different shaped 45 grain fired almost as good, but other 45 grain weight shot much worse.
I was given a few 36 grain bullets to try. These were of a long design and they shot a pattern about right for geese!
As someone said, bullet shape is very important, when the weight for twist ratio is iffy.
When a group really opens up, like going from rifle and shooter capability of one inch, to 6 or 8 inches, the reason is almost sure to be stabalizeation. Small variations in group size can be attributed to slight bullet design change, or a change of pressure in loading.
 
H4831 said:
Only living creatures with a thinking mind can decide what they like or don't like.
Rifles do not fit this catagory.
If a rifle shoots better with a certain bullet, or a certain load, than it does with another bullet or load, there is a reason for it.
Where bullets are concerned, it is easier to figure out, why one works better than another.
As you state, trying out different bullets is the way to go.
Twist of the barrel is a very important factor in this. I'm not sure what the twist of the early Brno's were, but 40 grains was about as heavy as they would shoot, with about one MOA accuracy.
If the bullet was a normal shape and 40 grains, it didn't matter to mine, whether it was of .223 or .224 size.
A different shaped 45 grain fired almost as good, but other 45 grain weight shot much worse.
I was given a few 36 grain bullets to try. These were of a long design and they shot a pattern about right for geese!
As someone said, bullet shape is very important, when the weight for twist ratio is iffy.
When a group really opens up, like going from rifle and shooter capability of one inch, to 6 or 8 inches, the reason is almost sure to be stabalizeation. Small variations in group size can be attributed to slight bullet design change, or a change of pressure in loading.
Click to expand...

Bruce I was under the impression that back in the day a 40gr bullet was as light as you could go and that most older rifles shot mostly 45gr bullets. Looking in my mid 60;s Speer manual there is data for 40,45,50,52 and 55gr bullets. Most fellows today want to have 40gr as their max load not their starting load. I Too have some older Hornet 223 bullets, I'll have a look at what grain weight they are in. FS
 
Fassteel said:
Bruce I was under the impression that back in the day a 40gr bullet was as light as you could go and that most older rifles shot mostly 45gr bullets. Looking in my mid 60;s Speer manual there is data for 40,45,50,52 and 55gr bullets. Most fellows today want to have 40gr as their max load not their starting load. I Too have some older Hornet 223 bullets, I'll have a look at what grain weight they are in. FS
Click to expand...

Eagleye on here has a Brno like mine was and he told me, as well as some other people, that 35 grain bulets worked great.
However, I didn't really have much use for the rifle and I sold it before trying these lighter bullets.
Maybe you could ask Eagleye.
Bruce
 
My Savage model 40 hornet is fussy about which powder to use. Originally when I purchased it from a fellow shooter he told me it liked 36gn with 13.0gn of LilGun powder. The results I got were less than steller with 40gn bullets (they were all I could find) and LilGun.
Consequently I switched to IMR4227 9.6gn and a group of 5 shots at 100 can be covered with a dime.

My $0.02 worth.

btw... bullet diameter for Savage is .224
 
I had an old Savage ,can't remember the model ? It was also .223 Some of the Martini rifles are rechambered .22 LR so .2225 My long gone Sako 72 or 74 was .223 and possessed to load for.One day all in a dime all over the next and it was properly glass bedded.Sometimes pistol primers are best........
 
I think the discrepancy with regards to the grain weight of bullets has to do with the materials and shape used.
Allow me to explain.
In the old days a pure lead or very thin jacketed/plated lead bullet was used with a relatively blunt olglive.
The twist rate required to stabilize these short,dense bullets is about the same as the requirements to stabilize a slightly longer,yet slightly lighter bullet.
Todays trend is to have long olglives that have low drag, light weight hollow points sometimes with polymer tips that further increase the length with no substantial gain in weight. Many bullets are also made of alloys lighter than lead which also serves to increase length relative to weight. Now for practicality you can only go so long before running into problems, so the bullets are little bit longer and little bit lighter than their pure lead grand parents.

You see the twist rate is based on Dia. and length of projectile and the known mass of pure lead not its weight. Here is the greenhill formula which is used to calculate rifle twist rates;

Bullet length in. 0.000" ÷ bullet DIA. In 0.000" =A
<2800fps; 150÷A=B, >2800fps; 180÷A=B
BxDIA.= 1: _______"

This is the formula used to calculate the optimum twist rate for a LEAD core bullet. I think you can see how drastic sectional density change could skew this equation.

To find your guns twist rate simply insert a tight fitting jag/patch into your muzzle. Now make a mark on your cleaning rod with a fine tip sharpie pen flush with th muzzle and one up near the handle on the side closest to you. Now push the rod down the bore until you see the dot near the handle go all the way around once. Now make a third mark on the rod that is at the muzzle. Withdraw the rod and measure between the two muzzle flush marks and there you have it. 1 revolotion in X inches.

Now for ubber slow twist rates you may need to go 6 o'clock to 12 o'clock and times your measurement by two. Usually only needed on muzzle loaders and large cals.

Now for acurate bore Dia. Take a lead fishing weight and hammer it into the muzzle CAREFULLY, and then use a brass rod to tap it down the bore out the other end. Now collect the 'slug' and measure with a mic or vernier calipers across the high spots.(Grooves)
For od numbered grooves (3,5,7)wrap the slug with a piece of a pop can tightly then measure it with th pop can in place. Then subtract twice the thickness of the popcan material from your measurement.
Now you know whether you need .223 or .224 bullets
 
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