22lr barrel twist for Long range

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joehunt

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Just wondering what your thoughts are? What do you run?
I’ve been doing a bit of reading on the subject. (Internet Reading)
But with a 16” twist we might be leaving some BC on the table with a
40gr bullet. If you plug it into a twist calculator it backs up the theory.
There are a couple companies making 9” twist prefits. I might try one.
My understanding is that they will not shoot as good at 50 yard but they
The better ballistics will be worth the trade off after 100yard.
Joe
 
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It doesn't shoot good at 50 but magically shoots great at 100? Physics says aint gonna happen. Once the projectile is off course, it just gets worse with distance.
 
I think the theory is that the better ballistics will be worth more past 100 then shooting little bug holes at 50 yards. Not that the bullet will magically straight out.
 
joehunt said:
I think the theory is that the better ballistics will be worth more past 100 then shooting little bug holes at 50 yards. Not that the bullet will magically straight out.
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This would appears to require two seemingly contradictory things to happen. First, that the system -- ammo ballistics and barrel characteristics -- that delivers the best accuracy with .22LR out to at least 100 yards ceases to provide the same basis for accuracy once beyond that distance. Second, that once past 100 yards (or perhaps further, but that doesn't seem important), other factors dictate how a 40 grain .22LR bullet will behave that don't operate at distances under 100 yards.
 
Some obtuse posters here. Glenn, you absolutely know better. The op misstated some of his premise, probably because he doesn’t grasp some of the concepts that you have forgotten learning because there is much more knowledge built on them. The bullets in question will not become more accurate at greater distance, but their limitations or strengths may make them compare more and more poorly or better to other bullets as the distance increases. Same as a very heavy for caliber 223/7mm/30cal bullet. Makes small difference in close, but performs far better than lighter bullets at long distance. Requires faster twist to stabilize though. It’s a sound question. Will a 60-80 gr 22LR projectile in a faster twist barrel than commonly available be more or less accurate at say, 300M, than the 40gr versions we have now. Closer in, like Center fire BR, effective bullet design for purpose looks quite different.
 
I should have looked some more but i never seen a 9 twist 22lr barrel and couldn't figure out why there would be as most ammo is 40gr or so. Guess im wrong though.
 
The theory is that while a faster twist is less than ideal at close range, the higher rotational speed yields an improvement in stability over a traditional 1 in 16 twist at extended ranges.
Without spending hours on end looking for quotes and links (I have better things to do) Vudoo Gunworks has been doing some research into this, if I remember correctly.
The last I read was that improved accuracy as a result of an increase in twist rate was linked closely to barrel length. In general, short barrels with a 1 in x (single digit) twist didn't do as well as longer ones for whatever reason.
Vudoo may have released more of their findings in the past few months, I haven't followed it.
 
Chilly807 said:
The theory is that while a faster twist is less than ideal at close range, the higher rotational speed yields an improvement in stability over a traditional 1 in 16 twist at extended ranges.
Without spending hours on end looking for quotes and links (I have better things to do) Vudoo Gunworks has been doing some research into this, if I remember correctly.
The last I read was that improved accuracy as a result of an increase in twist rate was linked closely to barrel length. In general, short barrels with a 1 in x (single digit) twist didn't do as well as longer ones for whatever reason.
Vudoo may have released more of their findings in the past few months, I haven't followed it.
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lol someone is on the same page.
Would be nice to hear if anyone has tried it. I’m working on getting a barrel to try for myself.
 
Mike Bush of Vudoo says he's been experimenting with different twist .22LR barrels and has hinted at clear improvements for some time. Many months ago he promised that information would be forthcoming. Despite this there doesn't yet appear to be confirming information made available. Perhaps it's still to come. (One shooter posting here on this forum says that he, too, is experimenting with different twist .22LR barrels. I don't know if his results have made public either.)

A frustrating aspect of .22LR is that accuracy loss is not linear as distance increases. This is probably the main reason why it becomes increasingly difficult to evaluate .22LR consistency and accuracy the further the distance. Virtually all .22LR ammo is equally accurate at a distance of one foot or even ten, but the further the bullet travels on its trajectory the more all accuracy affecting factors come into play, magnified as distance increases. Consistent one MOA at 50 yards is easier than consistent one MOA at 100. At twice that distance, consistent MOA accuracy with .22LR is a very tall order.

Unfortunately, that's just the nature of caliber, it's design limitations, and physics. Looking for a long-overlooked secret to increasing long range accuracy seems inevitable, but finding a viable solution is not necessarily so. Some seek it in different barrel twist rates, others in different bullets for .22LR. Will some of these potential solutions deliver? Perhaps. But there are some very real limitations with the .22LR caliber.
 
grauhanen said:
But there are some very real limitations with the .22LR caliber.
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This right here. Friends, there is not much ground left to be gained with refinements to actions and barrels, the tech there has pretty much peaked. The final frontier of rimfire accuracy, where the most significant improvements can be had, lies within the ammo itself.

You can't better stabilize an unbalanced bullet with different barrel twists.

You can't "compensate" for vertical dispersion due to velocity variation. This is a significant and exponentially increasing factor with distance due to the low velocity of .22 LR

You can't "straighten out" a bullet that was seated with a cant with the latest flavour of "match" chamber.

We're stuck with factory ammo, and the factories do not care about manufacturing ammo to benchrest spec. Many lots get rejected in testing by BR shooters as they would not be competitive. What does that leave you with, especially if you are not using Midas +, R-50, or Tenex? You'll gain more by lot testing those than you will trying a different twist with SK Standard Plus.

To truly make progress with rimfire accuracy, we need a way to assemble the most consistent cartridges possible at home, because the factories ain't gunna do it for us.

I'm not surprised the barrel twist pioneers haven't released any definitive findings yet. Until the ammo issue is squared away, lot variability is surely clouding their data.
 
RabidM4U5 said:
This right here. Friends, there is not much ground left to be gained with refinements to actions and barrels, the tech there has pretty much peaked. The final frontier of rimfire accuracy, where the most significant improvements can be had, lies within the ammo itself.

You can't better stabilize an unbalanced bullet with different barrel twists.

You can't "compensate" for vertical dispersion due to velocity variation. This is a significant and exponentially increasing factor with distance due to the low velocity of .22 LR

You can't "straighten out" a bullet that was seated with a cant with the latest flavour of "match" chamber.

We're stuck with factory ammo, and the factories do not care about manufacturing ammo to benchrest spec. Many lots get rejected in testing by BR shooters as they would not be competitive. What does that leave you with, especially if you are not using Midas +, R-50, or Tenex? You'll gain more by lot testing those than you will trying a different twist with SK Standard Plus.

To truly make progress with rimfire accuracy, we need a way to assemble the most consistent cartridges possible at home, because the factories ain't gunna do it for us.

I'm not surprised the barrel twist pioneers haven't released any definitive findings yet. Until the ammo issue is squared away, lot variability is surely clouding their data.
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This, in a nutshell. ^ Ammo consistency in rimfires is the biggest buggaboo for folks seeking bughole groups. For hunters & fun shooters, not as much.
As for the 60 gr Aguila stuff, it's great for dumping cattle sized critters with a shot though the brain or the basal junction up close, but not very acurrate past 30 yds or so on small critters.

It will be interesting to see if the larger ammo makers like CCI, Remington or Winchester get into the heavy bootit loadings for the .22LR. I would reckon that
Eley & Lapua are keeping an eye on this as well to see if rifle makers start putting units out with barrels of proper twist rate. Just takes good advertising to
move 'er ahead.
 
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Well looks like there is lots of people against the idea.
Tom at Go Big Tactical has a 22” 1 in 9 Lilja on the way for me.
Will be interesting to do a bit of testing.
Joe
 
Please keep us informed.
You did not mention what platform you are going to install this on.
Have you got a source for the 60 grain bullets?
While the velocity drops the RPM's remain constant.

I know what I paid for a Lilja . . . what is a 1 in 9 worth?
 
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