22LR vs 9mm for the handgun newb

Get a 9mm they are fun, easy to shoot, and relatively cheap on ammo. If you like shooting a handgun expand and then get a .22 so its REALLY cheap on ammo, and just as fun. Thats what I did. My 2 cents..
 
djmay71 said:
Looking to purchase my first handgun within the next month. Only problem is, the two I've brought it down to- the Kel Tec PLR 22 and the Ruger SR9- one is .22LR and the other 9mm.
........ So either choice fits the bill- but I have the feeling that someday I'll have the hankering for a .45ACP or a .357, and I'd like the transition from beginner pistol to intermediate pistol to be a smooth one.
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Don't bother with the .22LR. Buy the SR9 or whatever 9mm floats your boat. Ten years ago, my opinion would have been reversed

After getting bored with my .22 handguns (Smith Wesson 17 and Browning Buckmark) due to their super accuracy and lack of recoil, I had to sell/trade them recently. I bought them for "training purposes" for myself and others but have found them next to useless for that purpose.

I have come to realize that the only purpose for a .22 pistol, whether .22 conversion or a dedicated 1911/sig226/cz....is for inexpensive plinking. So if cheap plinking is your game, then you might as well invest in one.

If you want to be a decent pistolero, the SR9 is a good start, then try to find somebody to school you in the basics of pistolcraft. A good "teacher" can get you shooting nice 15 meter groups in one hour and 100 rounds of ammo.

I don't know if you are referring to the SR9/kel-tec as a beginner's pistols, but they are serious firearms...make no bones about it. IMO, there is no such thing as a beginner's firearm, they are all firearms, period.
 
Well after thinking about all this again, just get yourself a quality .45 1911 and don't look back! :nest:

If you think you might be flinching with it, either shoot 1,000 rounds into the berm as fast as you can while trying not to blink, or get yourself a Ruger Mark III in addition to the 1911. Life is good :D
 
I was in the same boat this spring. Bought a Buckmark camper and an SR9. Finally got to shoot them both last week after waiting for my ATT to come through. Chose both because I liked the way they felt and the controls on both are lefty friendly. Intention was to use the .22 to work on the basics and the 9 as an entry level centre fire. Happy with both so far, but I do prefer the fibre optic sights on the Buckmark to the SR9's smallish 3dots. The .22 is definately easier to shoot more accurately for me, also a newb, and I guess could become boring for someone with more proficiency. I'll worry about that if I get there. May look for aftermarket sights for the SR9.
What is a respectable 15m group for a new shooter?
 
BCRider said:
Talk to a bunch of Grand Master shooters from IPSC or similar. I'll bet they don't hold it as tight as you're suggesting.

Of course you want a firm grip but that generally comes at about the same pressure as a firm but friendly handshake and with the same tension/pressure extended back through the wrists and forearms. If you've got that sort of support the gun will come back to the nearly the same spot just due to muscle persistance. I've shocked myself doing fast double taps on more than a few occasions where the second shot was within 2 to 3 inches of the first despite not actually aiming the second shot. But so far I only trust myself to do it in matches at 7 yards or less from the targets.
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two uspsa grand masters/champions advice
"HOW HARD TO GRIP THE GUN
Brian Enos: “I’ve found over the years that the stronger I grip the gun as long as I’m still able to manipulate the trigger precisely, the better I shoot. In my book I talk about ‘relaxing’ when I shoot, and that’s caused a lot of confusion. I wasn’t saying you shouldn’t grip the gun firmly; I was talking about my overall attitude while shooting. What you want is a really firm, fluid hold on the gun. When most people grip a gun ‘strongly,’ what they’re really saying is that they’re using their arms and shoulders to bear down on the gun, so it just beats them around every time they fire it.

“My arms aren’t a part of my grip. I learned to feel the grip as only in my hands. That realization was a real breakthrough for me, that the grip is its own thing, not part of your arm position. Set up your grip without being in position, then push your arms out in front of your face without doing anything else to it; that’s going to be a pretty good shooting position for you.”

Dave Sevigny: “Grip the gun as hard as it takes to track up and down with the least amount of muzzle rise. If your grip is too relaxed, the pistol will recoil too much, track erratically, or it may shut down (failure to feed/eject, etc.). Gripping too hard, by contrast, may negatively affect sight alignment, induce trigger freeze (failure to let the trigger return forward far enough between shots to reset) for multiple-shot engagements and create fatigue in your hands and forearms. The pistol type and caliber will dictate how much actual grip pressure is needed.”"

i guess i was off in just saying without tremors, it should be "as hard as you can without tremor or effecting trigger control"
 
What you need is a TT-33 that can be had for less than two hundred dollars. Then you get an army surplus crate of 7.62x25 ammo. When you fire that baby you know your using a handgun and not a BB-gun.
 
heavenIsAlie said:
two uspsa grand masters/champions advice
"HOW HARD TO GRIP THE GUN
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From "Practical Shooting, Beyond Fundamentals" by Brian Enos, section on grip starting at page 39:

The grip and stance cannot control recoil in the sense of stopping recoil. That's not possible. What is possible is control of the sight and gun, and that's what a neutral grip helps you realize.

If the recoil you experience is consistent, it really does not matter how high the muzzle actually flips.
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The emphasis is not mine, and Brian Enos very rarely emphasizes anything. He continues on...
If you were to place your hands in that position and leave one-half-inch of space between them, that would much more accurately describe a neutral grip. You want to have that same feeling with your arms extended into a normal position. Practice dry-drawing without the gun and just running both fists out, leaving one-half-inch space between them. You don't want to force your hands against each other. You'll also immediately realize that there's no pushing/pulling with either arm.
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and on the next page...
A death grip not only takes away your feel to the point where you can no longer discern variances in the levels of pressure you're holding the gun with, but it also means that you're not able to return the sight to the target as consistently. If your hands are positioned well, and if your stance supports the neutrality of your grip, then there will be very little pressure required to stabilize the gun. Of course there is some amount of pressure involved in firing a gun. This pressure, however, should never exceed what's necessary to just suspend the pistol in a level position and keep if from dropping down. Experiment with this feeling.
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I suppose we could trade seemingly contradictory quotes from the greats forever, however one recurring theme to their work, and one which we are even taught in our Black Badge course, is that attempting to muscle the gun for recoil control is destructive to good shooting, where grip consistency in pressure and hand placement instead count. It doesn't matter if your sight moves up and to the right, so long as it's consistent and your grip allows the sight picture to return to the sweet spot. And my teacher also taught us that a consistent grip cannot be achieved until you can truly call your shots - and that means complete follow through focus on the front sight.

How does all this relate to the topic at hand? Well to put it mildly, the idea that the skills acquired shooting a .22 aren't transferable later to a 9mm because of not learning "recoil management" is darn right silly.
 
Damn you Brian Enos! :yingyang:
(Finally found an occasion to use that smile!)

Perhaps it just goes to prove that when masters reach the point where they are "one with their gun", they have absolutely no idea what they're really doing :p

And we all know that Dave Sevigny can't be trusted, because he shoots a glock. How can anyone reach the point of total oneness, in a profound transcendental state, with a GLOCK???? No wonder he has to put a monster grip on it, cause that plastic might jump out of his hand and take an eye out!

Kidding... of course! :D
 
I'd say go with the SR9, or whatever 9mm you want. I started out with a SR9 and I gota say I am happy with it, its comfortable in my hands and handles great. the trigger pull is a bit long but once you get used to it you don't even notice it. I have a smith & Wesson model 29 .44mag now to and plan to pick up a .22 before the summer is over.
 
heavenIsAlie said:
........I guess i was off in just saying without tremors, it should be "as hard as you can without tremor or effecting trigger control"
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When I've helped out a few guys that are as big or bigger than me I often say "hold it like you would a firm handshake but not so firm as to aim for crushing his knuckles." To me that's about two steps down from the shakes where my fingertips go white and the tendons stand out hard on the back of my hands. That's still a goodly amount of pressure but it's pressure with good control still available. The control to isolate movement in my trigger finger from the rest of the tension in my grip.

I don't think we're that far off trying to describe the same thing. Just different wording.
 
I'd recommend dry-drawing the gun with eyes closed, and learning to be as natural as your body mechanics can be to later open the eyes and find sights alligned ;)
Develop muscle memory that will correct you faster than if you were thinking and correcting.
 
CeeZer said:
I'd recommend dry-drawing the gun with eyes closed, and learning to be as natural as your body mechanics can be to later open the eyes and find sights alligned.
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LOL, the poor guy who started this thead about choosing a .22 first over a 9mm has just received some advanced IPSC lessons whether he wanted them or not :p
 
Finally checked back into this thread....I honestly thought it had died on me...apparently not.
Anyways, I think I'm going to take advantage of Wolverine's September "Free Shipping on in stock handguns" and get myself an M&P or Glock.
Now the decision is: M&P or Glock!?!?
 
misanthropist said:
This is not specific to Ruger but just general pistol advice: do not cheap out on mags. Most pistols are pretty reliable IF used with decent mags...I have probably seen 5 times as many mag-related failures as actual pistol mechanical failures.
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Meanwhile ;) , in wheel-gun territory...:evil:

djmay71 said:
Finally checked back into this thread....I honestly thought it had died on me...apparently not.
Anyways, I think I'm going to take advantage of Wolverine's September "Free Shipping on in stock handguns" and get myself an M&P or Glock.
Now the decision is: M&P or Glock!?!?
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Oh boy....:nest:...that's a whole 'nother can of worms !...:D
 
Asking us out here in Internet Land what gun you should buy is about as effective to your needs as asking us what size and style of underwear you should buy. YOU need to actually lay hands on the guns you're considering and shoot them. Our opinions mean less than nothing in this regard because we'll all tell you to buy what WE like.

Contact folks locally that own both those guns and ask nicely if you can shoot them. Bring your own ammo along to shoot and at least offer to leave them with a box as a thankyou for thier time and use of their gun. Then buy the one YOU like instead of waiting for us to TELL you what to buy.

Oh yeah, speaking of that. Ditch the idea of the Plastic Prophyliatics and get a REAL gun. Buy a CZ.... or a S&W revolver :D

See? We're all telling you to buy what WE like. Man up and take some responsibility and look into finding some folks at the range where you're a member that can let you shoot some handguns so you actually know what you're getting into.
 
Ok, if OP wants to get 9mm later anyway, I'd say - get one from start go. Skip .22LR, unless you do want two guns. There are valid reasons to have a .22 - training kids and attractive but shy ladies.

IMHO, it's more cost effective to go with a 9mm gun at once and use that one gun in all your practice. The money you saved on not getting a .22 can be used for a few classes and ammo (save your brass too). And you also don't go from one shape, grip and sights to another to get yourself a little confused. It will get a little confusing for a new shooter.

If you can learn, and cannot take classes for whatever reason, get 1 book to start you off with - Surgical Speed Shooting by Andy Stanford - worth every penny for a new shooter!! And get all the ammo you have money for.

Get the gun you are most comfy with!!! Grip, sights, color, shape, size, smell and whatever.

The best way is either to try all the guns your buddies have and/or to rent all the guns on your short list (say 10 or so) to get the list down to 2-3 guns. Then take a pick.

Just like BCRider, I'd recommend a CZ if it fits your hand, and get a DA/SA one too.
You can totally transform a plane CZ75B if it's not up to your skills anymore at later time - better/slimmer grip, better sights, better hammer/trigger, extended mag release..
 
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