I am just waiting patiently for my 234 Penguin reamer and then we will have more to talk about...........gonna call Kiff tomorrow and find out where we are at with it and projected ETA. I have brass all made up and more bullet weights on the way, a new set of Redding neck bushing dies and a nice S1 Vanguard XGS waiting for a new barrel. All I need now is the reamer and a few hours at the lathe..............I gotta make some time to go see my buddy and make some more barrels, too..........
234 Wildcat Family....ONE YEAR ANNIVERSARY
- Thread starter c-fbmi
- Start date
Well boys and girls I chronographed the 234 Douglas today, the load I used on the whitetail deer taken in Nov and it clocked 3430 fps for 4 shots avg. I overestimated a touch at 3500 but not far off really............That was with a 105 gn RBT bullet using Retumbo and a CCI 200 primer and reformed and neck turned W-W 284 brass. That is a max load with flattened primers and a slight resistance on bolt lift, no real ejector mark, but maybe just a hint.
Johnn Peterson
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Chemainus B.C.
Good progress and sounds like you're right on the mark. No need for CCI 250 Magnum primers I guess? What would you guess the velocity to be in the Penguin, using that same bullet? In the neighbourhood of 3,000 F/sec?
What was the donar rifle you used?
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Johnn,
Given case capacities I would estimate that 3250 to 3300 should be possible with the Penguin.........velocity does not go down in direct proportion to case capacity as efficiency increases as cases get smaller, especially from large overbore cases such as the Douglas. The 234 Douglas was built on a Marlin XS7 action but was a mistake on my part as the action in it's current condition is not long enough to work as a repeater. I need to lengthen the bolt throw and magazine box, which is easily done as this action is really just a stopped up long action. For now I'm just shooting it as a single shot. I have also noticed that the Marlin doesn't have the primary extraction force of a Rem, Win or Sako, which doesn't make it a great candidate for working up a wildcat cartridge.
Given case capacities I would estimate that 3250 to 3300 should be possible with the Penguin.........velocity does not go down in direct proportion to case capacity as efficiency increases as cases get smaller, especially from large overbore cases such as the Douglas. The 234 Douglas was built on a Marlin XS7 action but was a mistake on my part as the action in it's current condition is not long enough to work as a repeater. I need to lengthen the bolt throw and magazine box, which is easily done as this action is really just a stopped up long action. For now I'm just shooting it as a single shot. I have also noticed that the Marlin doesn't have the primary extraction force of a Rem, Win or Sako, which doesn't make it a great candidate for working up a wildcat cartridge.
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The formula used to arrive at those foot pounds of energy figure is so biased in favour of speed, that I don't think it relates to much in the game field.
For example, a 30-30 with 170 grain bullets at the speed they were designed for, 2200 fps, figures out to identical foot pounds of energy as a 45-70 with 420 grain bullets travelling at a velocity of 1400 fps, 1828 foot pounds of energy.
Now, with that grizzly charging you-----------------.
I tend to agree H, however it is a fact of physics that this is how kenetic energy is calculated. How game reacts is a completely different scenario though and John Taylor did his own formula for this, which is a lot more accurate as to how one can expect performance on game. Keith took great distaste with the true physics of the matter and had many examples of how game reacted differently to big bullets having less kinetic energy but died much quicker than smaller bullets with supposedly more energy.
hillbros_96
Regular
- Location
- Nowhere BC
2 percent error rate, I don't know if we could live with that success rate out of a wildcat. lol
Yes, we know that speed is squared, (vel X vel X mass in grains / 450,240) but it provides a commonly recognized basis for comparison... personally I weight "momentum" heavily... this is recognized by those experienced with shooting heavier slower projectiles... mass X velocity = penetration IME... those big bullets don't like to stop.
tylerjwitty
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Northern Ontario
wouldn't you figure a 230 moose would do 3800+ ?
I'd want a 12ga pump with Mag extenstion, loaded with DIXIESLUGS Triballs and my 4x4 with the door open (windows rolled up) right next to me..... and some Babywipes in the cab!
Well guys, it looks like I may have more to add here shortly. I just got 2 more bullet weights from Marshal, an 80 gnr (the lightest he can make apparently) and a 110 gn, which is just the 105 gn with the hollow point filled in with another 5 grns of lead. I also talked to PT&Gs customer service guy yesterday and it looks like my Penguin reamer should ship next week. I am definitely going to be seeking alternative makers of machine tooling as this lag time is ludicrous.
How did we ever get onto grizzly defense mode on a thread about 23 caliber wildcats.......now that IS a stretch...........
How did we ever get onto grizzly defense mode on a thread about 23 caliber wildcats.......now that IS a stretch...........
Weez jest s'plor'in thuh kon-sept awff chewter's there Mr. Douglas.
And 'nuther thang, yewzse in B.C. now, yah gartzs tuh pawnder the eye-deer
bout yer handle.
Seemzs yer letter'in izz awll mixed up fer hour belle province.
Maybee bc-mif oar sumtang like dat?
And 'nuther thang, yewzse in B.C. now, yah gartzs tuh pawnder the eye-deer
bout yer handle.
Seemzs yer letter'in izz awll mixed up fer hour belle province.
Maybee bc-mif oar sumtang like dat?
Yep Doug, I had to do a little searching myself, but I thought I best fetch it up again and get to work on it. Shooting weather is improving around here, these days, but I've been welding and getting my shop arranged. Made myself a nice 5' X 10' X 1/2" steel welding table on casters, and mounted an 8" vice on one corner. Then I welded up a couple side saddle mounts to hang my small MIG and plasma cutter either side of my big MIG, so it's all one package, on wheels, with one bottle and one power cord, pretty slick actually.
Was going to do some shooting and load testing today, but woke up at 6:30 to a howling south wind and rain on and off...........so I guess it's another day of fabricating and welding, need to build a cart for my oxy/acet bottles and a cart for my TIG yet. Then I need a steel rack for my inventory of steel, then I need a lumber rack for my inventory of lumber..........etc.........etc........etc...........
I did manage to fix my forklift yesterday (imagine, an electrician with 3 journeyman tickets, who has spent his lifetime fixing electrical sh!t, was actually able to fix his own electric forklift after six months of it laying dead in the middle of the shop floor) so life will be much better now around my shop. Ability to arrange things just improved 500%, now I can place my 60" shear and my 2 brakes, move my big compressor into place and get all my stacks of plywood up onto the mezzanine and off my shop floor......life is improving...........
I know I'm rambling.......nothing what-so-ever to do with 23 caliber wildcats, but in my mind it really does, because in my mental list of priorities, I just got much, much closer to working on guns with all these other nagging jobs off my mind. So much to do...........
Was going to do some shooting and load testing today, but woke up at 6:30 to a howling south wind and rain on and off...........so I guess it's another day of fabricating and welding, need to build a cart for my oxy/acet bottles and a cart for my TIG yet. Then I need a steel rack for my inventory of steel, then I need a lumber rack for my inventory of lumber..........etc.........etc........etc...........
I did manage to fix my forklift yesterday (imagine, an electrician with 3 journeyman tickets, who has spent his lifetime fixing electrical sh!t, was actually able to fix his own electric forklift after six months of it laying dead in the middle of the shop floor) so life will be much better now around my shop. Ability to arrange things just improved 500%, now I can place my 60" shear and my 2 brakes, move my big compressor into place and get all my stacks of plywood up onto the mezzanine and off my shop floor......life is improving...........
I know I'm rambling.......nothing what-so-ever to do with 23 caliber wildcats, but in my mind it really does, because in my mental list of priorities, I just got much, much closer to working on guns with all these other nagging jobs off my mind. So much to do...........
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How'd yah fix the fork'in lift?
Plugg'd it in and charr'd the batteries?
Did that 6 mos ago 'Looky..........no, I had to take the back off and find out why the main power contactor wouldn't pull in........anyway it was just mechanically stuck, maybe dust from the trip down. Got it all cleaned up with good old brake clean (I love that stuff) and she works 100% now.........Handy gadget, let me tell you, she lifts 8000 lbs up to 16'. Sure makes moving heavy sh!t around, a lot easier..........
Hoping the wind stops here as well so I can play some more with my new .223. Was out pruning apple trees yesterday and the wind was UGLY!
Still hoping for a Lynx some day.
I've been debating buying a forklift myself. Either that or build some forks to fit on my scissor lift for moving some of the "too heavy for me to lift" stuff around my shop but still under 400 pounds. We have a manual hydraulic pallet mover and it has worked very well but we don't have huge equipment to move around either, just some lifts of plywood, stacks of 2x6 and the 12 foot bench with the Blum mini-press.
Going for surgery Wednesday so will be sidelined for a month or so. Just what I wanted in time for spring planting...but after waiting 2 years I figured just get it over with. Saved two projects to work on while I am on the D.L. Going to build another Mauser 6.5 x 55 and going to surprise an old friend and rebuild his VERY badly used and abused 1954 Marlin 336RC in .35 Rem. that he left in my custody a few years ago. Wish I could post a picture...the rear stock is literally a mass of duct tape. Claims he broke it falling off a mountain in BC near Westbank many years ago and knowing him, he isn't lying...lol
Dave
Still hoping for a Lynx some day.
I've been debating buying a forklift myself. Either that or build some forks to fit on my scissor lift for moving some of the "too heavy for me to lift" stuff around my shop but still under 400 pounds. We have a manual hydraulic pallet mover and it has worked very well but we don't have huge equipment to move around either, just some lifts of plywood, stacks of 2x6 and the 12 foot bench with the Blum mini-press.
Going for surgery Wednesday so will be sidelined for a month or so. Just what I wanted in time for spring planting...but after waiting 2 years I figured just get it over with. Saved two projects to work on while I am on the D.L. Going to build another Mauser 6.5 x 55 and going to surprise an old friend and rebuild his VERY badly used and abused 1954 Marlin 336RC in .35 Rem. that he left in my custody a few years ago. Wish I could post a picture...the rear stock is literally a mass of duct tape. Claims he broke it falling off a mountain in BC near Westbank many years ago and knowing him, he isn't lying...lol
Dave
Well I just got back from another trip to the Yukon to fetch more sh!t........was able to spend some days in Dawson Ck and build another 4 more barrels in 23 cal........when I got home my 234 Penguin reamer was waiting for me, so guess what?...........I will be forging ahead on the project as soon as I can get a new action wrench........have been working on that today somewhat.
Been raining for the last couple days, so no shooting........I did manage to kill my first BC big game animal a couple weeks ago.........a medium sized black bear on the BC section of the road from Whitehorse to Skagway Ak. Sorry no pics, just a blackie and not a monster so deemed unworthy of photos, almost last light as well so they wouldn't have been great.
So for my next builds I think a Penguin certainly and then I'm very interested in doing a Pipsqueak (23-222 RM) I have a sweet little model 7 with the right bolt face thanks to "doublegun", he gave me a very good deal on it and I just like the looks of the cartridge. So now with bullet weights of 80, 90, 100, 105 and 110 grains I should be cooking for loads for the whole family.
I must apologize for the slow progress but it seems if it isn't slow reamer manufacturers it's broken action wrenches or being reprioritized by the wife or life in general...........but never fear I am on it and will report progress as it happens !!!
Been raining for the last couple days, so no shooting........I did manage to kill my first BC big game animal a couple weeks ago.........a medium sized black bear on the BC section of the road from Whitehorse to Skagway Ak. Sorry no pics, just a blackie and not a monster so deemed unworthy of photos, almost last light as well so they wouldn't have been great.
So for my next builds I think a Penguin certainly and then I'm very interested in doing a Pipsqueak (23-222 RM) I have a sweet little model 7 with the right bolt face thanks to "doublegun", he gave me a very good deal on it and I just like the looks of the cartridge. So now with bullet weights of 80, 90, 100, 105 and 110 grains I should be cooking for loads for the whole family.
I must apologize for the slow progress but it seems if it isn't slow reamer manufacturers it's broken action wrenches or being reprioritized by the wife or life in general...........but never fear I am on it and will report progress as it happens !!!
