234 Wildcat Family....ONE YEAR ANNIVERSARY

[tylerjwitty]

How could there be anything wrong?......you have directly quoted me..............LOL


There seems to be a big movement afoot for a 23 Moose...................23-06...............

You mean my idea was liked?!????!!

Most people think my ideas are ever so slightly , shall we say different ?

What twist do you figure that would have to be ??

I would imagine the velocity would be to great for an 8 twist would you not think also

 

[marshman]

Yes.

Will a bushing work for the 6.5x55?

 

[Johnn Peterson]

What twist do you figure that would have to be ??

I would imagine the velocity would be to great for an 8 twist would you not think also

I don't have the technical expertise really to question the 1 - 8" twist but I have a similar nagging doubt. 1 - 10" or even 1 - 12" twists come to mind but then, I guess a lot of what's required depends on the bullet weights and/or BC's. Still, 1 - 8"......... .

 

[marshman]

I just put one together, using my 6br die, I found that progressive worked best, going down to .243 then to .234,
the neck ended up being .015 thick (not to bad) so measuring the finished neck it is .261 meaning the neck on the reamer should be
.264, & the bushing would be .259
I also seated it with the 6.5x55 seating die.

Will a bushing work for the 6.5x55?

 

[marshman]

234 Penguin

I just put one together, using my 6br die, I found that progressive worked best, going down to .243 then to .234,
the neck ended up being .015 thick (not to bad) so measuring the finished neck it is .261 meaning the neck on the reamer should be
.264, & the bushing would be .259
I also seated it with the 6.5x55 seating die.

 

[HuntNL]

Very cool, thanks. All I need is a barrel chambered in 234 Penguin.

 

[kamlooky]

Whut 'bout tha weeee Lil Wagner.............aka..........Wee Wagner?

 

[burnt_servo]

get a 243 bushing die, and just change the bushing and you will have the 230 Hyrax in about 15 seconds.
same applies for all but if you are starting with a 22 cal cartridge you need to expand first.

Forget about reducing from .30 it will need all kinds of neck turning afterwards.

so more than likely the guys that want one based on the 30-06 case , would more than likely need to use 25-06 brass

 

[c-fbmi]

so more than likely the guys that want one based on the 30-06 case , would more than likely need to use 25-06 brass

That would make the most sense..........


As far as reamers go, no one cant just run a 308 based case reamer deeper to make the 06 based chamber..........all kinds of things wrong with that b_s..........shoulder dia's, case taper, even shoulder angle is different.

 

[c-fbmi]

TJW and John.........there is no such thing as over-stabilization, regardless of what you may have read elsewhere, it just doesn't exist !! When one is designing a cartridge that no parameters have ever been established for bullet weights and lengths and you know that you will be using long and heavy for caliber bullets it is always better to err on the side of a sharper twist. Too slow a twist and you will lack stability, and there is no way to regain it, just throw the barrels and button away and start again, especially if there is no source of light bullets as is the case here.
If one starts to vaporize bullets, then the twist is too sharp for the velocity......two solutions, heavier bullet or slow it down until it stays together, OR buy a new button and make slower twist barrels. I can assure you Johnn and TJW that one would not want to go slower than 1-10, possibly even 1-9..........Marshal uses 6mm jackets to make these 23 cal bullets so we are limited in how light we can go, and he's so busy right now he's only able to make one weight and style at the moment. This will likely be 100 or 105 gn which will require the 1-8 twist trust me..........

 

[burnt_servo]

That would make the most sense..........


As far as reamers go, no one cant just run a 308 based case reamer deeper to make the 06 based chamber..........all kinds of things wrong with that b_s..........shoulder dia's, case taper, even shoulder angle is different.

I know it is different , but think of it as a 308 stretched out , but using 30-06 brass with a 308 case taper , shoulder diameter , shoulder angle , neck length .... ect. ect...

the 30-06 ( or in this case 25-06 ) brass would be necked down to create a false shoulder , then fire formed . more than likely the case would be slightly larger in volume than the parent case .

the only down side I can see it diameter around the case head would be a few thou larger than normal , similar to what happens when a person uses 30-06 brass to make 9.3x62 rounds , there ends up a few extra thou of clearance due to sizing differences.

do you see what I'm getting at ?

 

[tylerjwitty]

You would be looking at a very slow process since the flutes would be all inside the chamber and if they get too full they either would a) gull up and scratch the heck of out your chamber or b) seize up and snap a reamer off . Not saying it's not possible just slow

 

[c-fbmi]

I know it is different , but think of it as a 308 stretched out , but using 30-06 brass with a 308 case taper , shoulder diameter , shoulder angle , neck length .... ect. ect...

the 30-06 ( or in this case 25-06 ) brass would be necked down to create a false shoulder , then fire formed . more than likely the case would be slightly larger in volume than the parent case .

the only down side I can see it diameter around the case head would be a few thou larger than normal , similar to what happens when a person uses 30-06 brass to make 9.3x62 rounds , there ends up a few extra thou of clearance due to sizing differences.

do you see what I'm getting at ?

How would one go about sizing a case fired in such a chamber? The tolerance variances are huge, you say just a few thou here and a few thou there...........but these few thou are unacceptable in the world of rifle chambers.

 

[d4dave1]

So I have been doing a bit of "research" online in regards to using a Browning X bolt as a donor for a 234 project rifle. To be blunt things don't look good. Not to say it cannot be done it just appears there are enough ummm...complications ??....to make using a Browning just not worth the extra trouble.

There is very little information available on the X bolt that I was able to find but I did find info on the A bolt.

I will post verbatiom some of what I have found so others may read it and intrepret it for themselves. I admit some of it is Greek to me.???

It just looks like there are so many other choices out there that don't have any frustrating little complications. I might just go hunt down that Steyr in 22-250 again.....
Regards,
Dave.

Hornet 6
18-10-2011, 21:22
I have one in .223, no problems chambering any ammo, nice and smooth.
Love the safety and the bolt release button allowing unloading while the safety is on.
Hated the trigger, min it would adjust to is 3.5lb, clean and crisp but too heavy, turned out to be a very easy and free fix.
My only real complaint is the factory threaded barrel.........
M14 x 1mm if to large a thread for the light profile barrel, as it leaves nearly no shoulder.
On top of that it was not concentric to the bore, and the shoulder was also out of square to the thread and not properly formed.
I feel for the money it should have been better, but a decent re-thread in 1/2" x 20 tpi not only fixed it, it left a nice crown
not the abortion that browning hacked into it.
I would certainly buy another when I go for a bigger calibre, but would factor in the cost of a proper threading job, and the near 400 mile round trip to get it done.

Neil.



05-23-2010, 04:44 AM
Fitch
Silver Member Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Carlisle, PA
Posts: 478

Re: Removing and Replacing Browning A Bolt barrel
________________________________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rustystud
Since making this post I have been in contact with the R&D Department of Browning.

The tec that I spoke with could not tell me if the actions were investment cast. He said he would find out and call me back.

He verified the threads had been changed from 20 tpi to 32 tpi.

He said no glue was use to lock the threads.

He said with the appropriate wrenches and technique the barrel would screw right off the action. He said he had done thousands of them.

He said the actions did have an anti seize compound on them.

He could not have been any nicer and appologized for the persons lack of response from their Browning service center.

The wrench from Brownells should be here today.

Nat lambeth



From Shilen.com:
To complete the job, the gunsmith need only accomplish these steps:

1. Check for correct thread mating of barrel to receiver. Barrel thread is standard size, but variations in action threads
could mean an overly tight or loose fit.

2. Cut shoulder for the correct headspace. The chamber is cut .010" to .015" deeper than standard dimensions to allow for this.

3. Outside finish the barrel, if required.


Available in threading for:

• Remington Model 700, 600, XP-100, 40-X Centerfire
• Sako 1960 L Series, 1980 A Series, 1990 M Series
• Weatherby Mark V
• Winchester Model 70, Post 64 only - ** Let us know if they are 16 or 28 TPI **
• Ruger Model 77 • Mauser 98 • Mauser 96
• Browning A-bolt - **Requires customer to provide desired thread diameter and pitch**

 

[c-fbmi]

d4d1......The first description has to be about a muzzle break or BOSS system as 1/2" or 14 mm isn't anywhere near big enough to be a shank thread...........

I have just heard that some of the newer rifles are using shrink fit barrels w/o threads..........these, although not impossible to work on, would not be something I might want to try just now. Very easy to assemble, not so easy to remove, depending on dimensions.

 

[d4dave1]

Thanks Douglas. I knew something was not adding up in my brain but I didn't think to consider the "other end of the barrel"...lol

I just wanted to post the information in case someone else was considering using a Browning as a donor and perhaps save them some legwork. Also just for general info.

I am currently finding information in regards to caliber - bolt face diameter - case length to improve my knowledge base. Not sure that any of this would need to be posted here as most of you seem to have good knowledge on this information already.
Dave​

 

[c-fbmi]

Thanks Douglas. I knew something was not adding up in my brain but I didn't think to consider the "other end of the barrel"...lol

I just wanted to post the information in case someone else was considering using a Browning as a donor and perhaps save them some legwork. Also just for general info.

I am currently finding information in regards to caliber - bolt face diameter - case length to improve my knowledge base. Not sure that any of this would need to be posted here as most of you seem to have good knowledge on this information already.
Dave​

d4d1..........There are 3 common boltface dias that take in 95% of all rifles made..........375" +/-, this is for the 17 Rem /222/223/204 class of cartridges.......then there is the .473" +/- for the 250/243/308/270/06/7X57 and all other cartridges based on these cases ........then there is the .532" +/- which takes in all belted mags (except the 240 Wby) and the RUMs and the Ruger offerings, the WSMs are .010 bigger, but still basically fall in this group.

When one is wildcatting it always makes sense to select a parent case that falls into one of these case head sizes, and avoid cartridges like the 30 Rem and other oddball case head cases, especially if one prefers Rem actions.

 

[Johnn Peterson]

TJW and John.........there is no such thing as over-stabilization, regardless of what you may have read elsewhere, it just doesn't exist !! When one is designing a cartridge that no parameters have ever been established for bullet weights and lengths and you know that you will be using long and heavy for caliber bullets it is always better to err on the side of a sharper twist. Too slow a twist and you will lack stability, and there is no way to regain it, just throw the barrels and button away and start again, especially if there is no source of light bullets as is the case here.
If one starts to vaporize bullets, then the twist is too sharp for the velocity......two solutions, heavier bullet or slow it down until it stays together, OR buy a new button and make slower twist barrels. I can assure you Johnn and TJW that one would not want to go slower than 1-10, possibly even 1-9..........Marshal uses 6mm jackets to make these 23 cal bullets so we are limited in how light we can go, and he's so busy right now he's only able to make one weight and style at the moment. This will likely be 100 or 105 gn which will require the 1-8 twist trust me..........

Again, I admit my level of expertise on the subject, in reality, amounts to 1/2 of 5/8 of sweet f*** all. Checking through some info in a manual I have and looking at the twist rates listed for 'fast movers' in calibres above and below the proposed 23, there don't appear to be any listed at 1 - 8", and only a couple of examples at 1 - 9". With my limited knowledge, 23 cal examples like the proposed 'D less' 23 HYRAX and the 234 Moose will really be 'hauling a**', which is primarily why I was wondering about a rapid 1 - 8" twist, with the projected 100gr or 105gr bullet weight weight. What would be your estimate of velocity be for the HYRAX and the Moose??

 

[marshman]

Play with this. You have to pay close attention to bullet length and atmospheric conditions. As far as stability is concerned you wont go wrong with the 8 twist.

http://www.bergerbullets.com/litz/TwistRuleAlt.php

Is "anyone" going to step up and order a reamer for their wish list? Or just hope Douglas will throat and neck for everyone's desires? Because one neck size will not do all. Having said that,
I can make up some of the rounds talked about ( when I have time) so WHOEVER can send it to their favorite reamer guy and get it done!

Again, I admit my level of expertise on the subject, in reality, amounts to 1/2 of 5/8 of sweet f*** all. Checking through some info in a manual I have and looking at the twist rates listed for 'fast movers' in calibres above and below the proposed 23, there don't appear to be any listed at 1 - 8", and only a couple of examples at 1 - 9". With my limited knowledge, 23 cal examples like the proposed 'D less' 23 HYRAX and the 234 Moose will really be 'hauling a**', which is primarily why I was wondering about a rapid 1 - 8" twist, with the projected 100gr or 105gr bullet weight weight. What would be your estimate of velocity be for the HYRAX and the Moose??

 

[c-fbmi]

Again, I admit my level of expertise on the subject, in reality, amounts to 1/2 of 5/8 of sweet f*** all. Checking through some info in a manual I have and looking at the twist rates listed for 'fast movers' in calibres above and below the proposed 23, there don't appear to be any listed at 1 - 8", and only a couple of examples at 1 - 9". With my limited knowledge, 23 cal examples like the proposed 'D less' 23 HYRAX and the 234 Moose will really be 'hauling a**', which is primarily why I was wondering about a rapid 1 - 8" twist, with the projected 100gr or 105gr bullet weight weight. What would be your estimate of velocity be for the HYRAX and the Moose??

Well Johnn let's consider that a good long barreled 243 will push a 100-105 grnr at 3100 fps absolute max. (forget the modern loading books, it will trust me) Logic and interpolation says, same case capacity and same bullet weight, with a smaller base dia tells us that 3000-3100 will be absolute max in the Hyrax. Same goes for the 23-06 and the 230 Douglas, the 284/06 case adds about 3-400 fps to the 243 case with a long barrel so expectations should be roughly the same in 23 cal.......so you're looking at a max of MAYBE 34-3500 fps............I have never vaporized a bullet under 3700 fps in a 1-8 twist, and that was a thin jacketed SMK...........not a bonded core, relatively heavy jacketed, hunting bullet.