234 Wildcat Family....ONE YEAR ANNIVERSARY

RoA....Are you interested in a standard 250-3000 case or the AI version?

I was playing in my gun room last night and realized that the 6.5X55 and 284 case are the same length, which means that for normal hunting bullets up to about 80-90 grns one could run either through a short action. However for the heavy and long VLDs a long action would be required for a repeater using these 2 cases.
Also according to my math and making some assumptions and generalizations one should be able to achieve approx. 100 fps more velocity with the same weight as could be attainable in it's 22 cal counterpart. This cartridge is quickly becoming of greater interest to me than the 22-284 I've been playing with.
Also according to my math one should be able to reach a .5 BC with optimum shape (VLD) at about 88-90 grns of bullet weight.
As I said I got to playing, and in doing so, necked down a 300 WSM to 23...........kinda interesting looking and given the powders we have today, that were not available back in the 50s and 60s, it may also be a viable candidate................234 Panda....
 
I was just thinking standard 22-250 necked up no other changes. For dies a Lee 22-250 collet die with the jaws opened up for the 23 might work and I have a 250 savage die to kind of bump most of the shoulder back when needed. Could get the reamer to build a sizing die I suppose. I've never built a die before would be something new for me.
 
RoA.......I've never made a set for a new caliber, have reworked (bubba'd) many sets to get functional brass for a wildcat. Dave Kiff just made me the first die reamer I've ever owned for the 458 Ruger, I have an extra set of 458 WM dies I'm going to alter, rather than build new ones. I will never shoot it so much that I'll need a custom set of dies, so I'm sure the annealed reworked dies will work fine.
I just thought Roa, your 22-250 seater die may work for sizing with a .231-.232" expander ball, depending on the length to the crimp shoulder it might be ok for starters. It will for sure neck size most of the neck and shouldn't over work the necks too bad.
I think I'll have Dave make a N&Ter to rework 22 cal dies, for sizing. This will allow anyone to rework any 22 cal dies for the 234....... 22-250, 22-250 AI, 22-243, 22-284, 222 RM all of which are readily available from Huntingtons, as a matter of fact I have all these dies in my rack right now...........the only one that will need to be made will be 234 Penguin (6.5X55).
I have decided to have both Penguin reamers built, one for .473 base dia cases AND one for the true 55 case with a .481 base dia. For the .473 base dia cases a 6mm Rem will work with almost no modifications other than neck to 23 cal trim to 2.160" and fireform to attain the 30 deg shoulder and remove a little body taper. Full load work could be done before and during the fireforming phase without the extra step, they are that close to perfect.
 
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Hello c-fbmi, Did you get my PM? I looked, but my account doesn't seem to retain my sent messages, or I'd post it here. Basically, I said that it would be nice to see your .234 based on a common cartridge, so that a common rifle could be used, with factory mag, then only a barrel blank is required. Plus, I was hoping to see 110 to 115 grain projectiles. I'll read back through the pages, as maybe these issues have already been decided. Thanks:)
 
So what is the final "verdict" here. Whats the case that your using? Its a .234 caliber bullet I know that. But thats about all I know so far as I never really saw a final decision on the case and what not.
 
Actually H-4-L, it is going to be a family of wildcats......starting with the 204 Ruger case (222 Rem mag), the 22-250/250-3000 case, the 243 Win case, the 6mm Rem case shortened slightly to 2.160", the 6.5X55 case and finally the 284 Win case. Something for everyone !!!! These can all be done with a minimal outlay for tooling as I already have most of the reamers or access to them. I'm going to be asking certain people to try out one cartridge each, and work up loads in all bullet weights, with all appropriate powders and compile data and comments for an article, which I will write (with your guys assistance) and see if Rifle or Handloader or other mags have any interest in publishing it. Nothing ventured nothing gained !!!

Republic of Alberta says he's in for the one based on the 22-250 case (23-250?), I want to play primarily with the 234X55 (234 Penguin) and 23-284 (234 Baboon), so I'm taking names for the 204 based case (234 Spotted Owl), the 243 based case (234 Koala) and the 6mm based case (234 Emperor) and if anyone is interested, the 250 AI case. This project will take some time and dollars, just thought I would mention that before anyone jumps up and says "I WILL". There will be the cost of brass, bullets, primers and powder, a set of dies to modify, plus you must have a donor action with the right bolt face........I will supply the barrel and chamber it up, thread it on and headspace it, for any who wish to participate. At the end I will offer you the barrel job for an agreed upon sum or you can send me back the barrel.
If anyone wants something based on another case (22 cal), for which I have a reamer, then we can make that too.
 
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Bigfoot 870 said:
Hello c-fbmi, Did you get my PM? I looked, but my account doesn't seem to retain my sent messages, or I'd post it here. Basically, I said that it would be nice to see your .234 based on a common cartridge, so that a common rifle could be used, with factory mag, then only a barrel blank is required. Plus, I was hoping to see 110 to 115 grain projectiles. I'll read back through the pages, as maybe these issues have already been decided. Thanks:)
Click to expand...

BF870......Had a long talk with Marshal today, we feel that with a 1-8 twist we should be able to stabilize up to 110 gn VLD bullet with a 14s ogive in the larger cases at the higher velocities. Could be a problem with the 204 case and velocities from the 250-3000 case could be marginal with a bullet this long in a 1-8 twist. This is the fun in doing it, is finding out what works and what don't.
All wildcats in this family are based on standard cases readily available and should require zero action work when starting with an action of the correct cartridge family with the correct boltface.
 
c-fbmi said:
RoA....Are you interested in a standard 250-3000 case or the AI version?

I was playing in my gun room last night and realized that the 6.5X55 and 284 case are the same length, which means that for normal hunting bullets up to about 80-90 grns one could run either through a short action. However for the heavy and long VLDs a long action would be required for a repeater using these 2 cases.
Also according to my math and making some assumptions and generalizations one should be able to achieve approx. 100 fps more velocity with the same weight as could be attainable in it's 22 cal counterpart. This cartridge is quickly becoming of greater interest to me than the 22-284 I've been playing with.
Also according to my math one should be able to reach a .5 BC with optimum shape (VLD) at about 88-90 grns of bullet weight.
As I said I got to playing, and in doing so, necked down a 300 WSM to 23...........kinda interesting looking and given the powders we have today, that were not available back in the 50s and 60s, it may also be a viable candidate................234 Panda....
Click to expand...

I believe I already stated most of what you've just stated on the technical stuff.
Does your wife ever complain about you not listening to her? :)
And "Baboon"?!! Seriously?!! It's like you are spending your own time and money on this ....
Could I possibly request .234 White Seal, just to be obnoxious?
 
At least one of those cases should be named the "234 barely Legal" you know to keep the essence of its purpose. On side note the words barely legal will get a lot more attention in conversation. Best of luck
 
cam1936 said:
Imagine the Look on the CO,s face when he is checking a rifle, looks for the stamp on the barrel and see .234 Penguin. It would probably cause some confusion due to our .23 and larger rule, which makes the .243Win is the smallest big game rifle anyone has ever seen.
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Actually the old 6 x 47 (.222 Rem Mag case) was the smallest cartridge allowed in Alberta. It just makes the case capacity.
 
burnt_servo said:
I've been thinking about what guntech was saying about swaging a 6mm bullet down to 234 in the barrel itself .

6mm has a bore of 236 and a groove of 243 .

what if you made a really tight 6mm barrel , chambered it in a 6mm cartridge . then afterwards run a tapered reamer about 10- 12 inches long , just to loosen things up a bit to try to avoid any pressure spikes from having a too tight of a barrel .

basically I'm thinking of trying to move the point of where the bullet gets swaged down from the throat to the first 10-12 inches of the barrel while it is engaged into the rifling .
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A bullet will swage down in it's own length...if the throat is cut to accept it with a very slight jump pressures will be fine. 6mm to .234 would be easy.
 
c-fbmi said:
Actually H-4-L, it is going to be a family of wildcats......starting with the 204 Ruger case (222 Rem mag), the 22-250/250-3000 case, the 243 Win case, the 6mm Rem case shortened slightly to 2.160", the 6.5X55 case and finally the 284 Win case. Something for everyone !!!! These can all be done with a minimal outlay for tooling as I already have most of the reamers or access to them. I'm going to be asking certain people to try out one cartridge each, and work up loads in all bullet weights, with all appropriate powders and compile data and comments for an article, which I will write (with your guys assistance) and see if Rifle or Handloader or other mags have any interest in publishing it. Nothing ventured nothing gained !!!

Republic of Alberta says he's in for the one based on the 22-250 case (23-250?), I want to play primarily with the 234X55 (234 Penguin) and 23-284 (234 Baboon), so I'm taking names for the 204 based case (234 Spotted Owl), the 243 based case (234 Koala) and the 6mm based case (234 Emperor) and if anyone is interested, the 250 AI case. This project will take some time and dollars, just thought I would mention that before anyone jumps up and says "I WILL". There will be the cost of brass, bullets, primers and powder, a set of dies to modify, plus you must have a donor action with the right bolt face........I will supply the barrel and chamber it up, thread it on and headspace it, for any who wish to participate. At the end I will offer you the barrel job for an agreed upon sum or you can send me back the barrel.
If anyone wants something based on another case (22 cal), for which I have a reamer, then we can make that too.
Click to expand...

If ad the time and $$$ id take on a caliber and tinker with it as well, but at this point in time I wont be able to. Just to much on the go right now. But thats awesome that there is a variety of "calibers" that your mixing up instead of just one caliber! Im interested in seeing how the 23-284 plays out, should be a deadly little caliber
 
guntech said:
A bullet will swage down in it's own length...if the throat is cut to accept it with a very slight jump pressures will be fine. 6mm to .234 would be easy.
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Yep Dennis, Ackley did a 35 Whelen in a 30-06 barrel, like you said properly chambered and throated, there is no discernible increase in pressure. I will likely be doing this just to get shooting it before the bullet dies arrive. Probably chamber for the 243 Win and I have thousands of 6mm bullets. After I'll just cut 1/2" off the barrel and rechamber, or maybe I'll just keep it for fun and conversation. Cause God knows I need another 243 firing rifle, as I only have 4 or 5 now.................
 
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Doug,
I have a nice .22 BR reamer and a 22-250 AI reamer with a removable pilots if you want to borrow them for this project.
 
Thanks Dennis I appreciate the offer, I think I'll have my hands full for the next couple years, but if someone wanted a 23 BR or 23-250 AI to play with I might just take you up on it..............I thought about the 23 BR actually, might just be a helluva cartridge.
 
Excellent, Thanks c-fbmi:) I have looked at the parent case of all the cartridges you believe to be a good starting point for your .234. For me, based simply on rifle commonality, I'd love to see the .243 Win case used. Am I right to think, then, that any .308 Win could be used, by simply replacing the barrel, with a correctly tooled blank (knowing that the rifle model is designed for easy replacement)? I will admit that I'm not up on all the cartridge lingo, and technical side of things, but I do enjoy guns, and like to hunt, and target shoot. Thanks again:)

c-fbmi said:
BF870......Had a long talk with Marshal today, we feel that with a 1-8 twist we should be able to stabilize up to 110 gn VLD bullet with a 14s ogive in the larger cases at the higher velocities. Could be a problem with the 204 case and velocities from the 250-3000 case could be marginal with a bullet this long in a 1-8 twist. This is the fun in doing it, is finding out what works and what don't.
All wildcats in this family are based on standard cases readily available and should require zero action work when starting with an action of the correct cartridge family with the correct boltface.
Click to expand...
 
c-fbmi said:
Thanks Dennis I appreciate the offer, I think I'll have my hands full for the next couple years, but if someone wanted a 23 BR or 23-250 AI to play with I might just take you up on it..............I thought about the 23 BR actually, might just be a helluva cartridge.
Click to expand...

Alberta bases it's smallest hunting cartridge on case capacity as well 23 caliber ... I believe the case capacity needs to be that of a 30-30 case. Can anyone verify that?

I think a 23 BR would be a fabulous performer... the 6mm BR certainly is.

The smallest 23 you do should be the 23 Hummingbird... the BR case could be the 23 Coot.

All sorts of protected birds to choose from...
 
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