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- Thread starter Johnyy
- Start date
redbirddog
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Maple Syrup land Ontario
Send back to Savage. They will replace the springs and test fire. They have A1 service.
Hi, I have a Savage Mark ll fv-sr, that I haven't shot a whole lot. The thing is, it's been stored for a couple years, with the bolt removed.
The other day I went to insert the bolt, it gave me "trouble". Reminded me when I went through a whole thing' with my Mosin lol, so..I looked up any info etc.
When I got in in, & finally working normal/smoothly...it's not strong enough to engage the primer. I can get it to 'fire' if I push on the bolt with my thumb hard, as I squeeze the trigger ..& she goes, other than that = No go, light strikes.
Other than the obvi. to give it a good cleaning, strip the bolt right down, check firing pin etc. Am I missing something Obvious?? It worked b4 taking bolt out.
Has anyone heard of anything on these, with similar situation? Can it be something is not 'aligned' correct..or something that's not {within} the bolt itself?
Any insight is appreciated. Cheerz ~
J.
It looks like action is a little forward in stock? If the stock is holding bolt back slightly it may cause this? Maybe try re seating the stock? The cut out (in the stock) for the bolt seems off?
I believe the MKII is '#### on opening bolt' and as such you have 'stored' the bolt Cocked all that time. It may have weakened the spring OR the inside is 'gummed up' causing the FP to drag.
Have you ever taken the bolt apart to clean it? Often manufacturing grease will gum up when not in use. A good practice to take apart bolts - I've found crap even inside CZs.
Have you ever taken the bolt apart to clean it? Often manufacturing grease will gum up when not in use. A good practice to take apart bolts - I've found crap even inside CZs.
- Location
- Western Manitoba
That you CAN get it to fire by pushing hard on bolt handle - maybe consider headspace? Something has changed since you last used it? We are talking thickness of piece of paper size of change, not centimetres thick size of change. Looking at the Savage rimfires here, I think they "lock up" on the bolt handle - and from one of your pictures, as if that bolt handle is within a mortice into the bolt body - is that loose? Light or no primer strike marks suggest either firing pin not going forward enough (grunge inside), or excessive headspace would also likely do that? If it ALWAYS works to push bolt ahead, might want to work from that?
Can you post pictures with the bolt closed, both cocked and not cocked? I'm just wondering if the stock might be interfering with the forward movement somehow. And for that matter, with the bolt out of the gun, uncock it and see if it moves all the way forward alright. As was mentioned, could've got some crud in it when you had it out. Seeing how easily it works when it is out of the gun might indicate an issue such as that. And seeing how the movement is while in the gun might indicate a different issue. Easy enough to take apart, clean, and put back together anyway.
Hey, thank for all the replies. I did think it had something to do with the stock, initially, one of the bolts was loose, the stock had a bit of play. Now its tightened up, & still only light strikes. I think I'll double check all that again though.
I will post couple more pics ^ as requested.. I think I will take it down {bolt apart} as much as I can first, inspect/clean & see if she better after that.
The bolt may have been stored, not in it's natural' position, as when I went to put the bolt in for the first time, I had to play around, as it wouldn't just slid in naturally at first. As said above, it may have lost rigidity, if bolt was in a cocked position, out of the rifle for a couple years..
I will post couple more pics ^ as requested.. I think I will take it down {bolt apart} as much as I can first, inspect/clean & see if she better after that.
The bolt may have been stored, not in it's natural' position, as when I went to put the bolt in for the first time, I had to play around, as it wouldn't just slid in naturally at first. As said above, it may have lost rigidity, if bolt was in a cocked position, out of the rifle for a couple years..
Rod B
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
I agree. Bolt stored cocked has resulted in a weakened firing pin spring.
- Location
- Western Manitoba
From various reading - I am not so sure it is proven that storing a coil spring compressed will weaken it - some seem to think it is the "flexing" of compressing and un-compressing that cause it to get weak. Not so sure that experience with a flat spring (like in many magazines) is exactly comparable to experience with a coil spring - although I have had magazines with coil springs, as well. I had presumed that the use of coil spring in a magazine was a "cheaper to make for the maker" thing, versus a "performs better for the user" thing, but I may be incorrect about that.
Sort of confounding for me - since forever I have been releasing the main spring when I close a bolt - is stored "uncocked" so that tension off that coil spring. Then I got striker fired shotguns - something in head says is bad idea to "dry fire" - and I do not like idea of keeping "snap caps" in those chambers for storage - so I guess those shotguns are stored with coil springs under compression - opposite to what I had been doing about the bolt actions - I still do not know which way is "correct" - all still "work" when last that I used them - so, from experience here, not really convinced that compressed or not compressed makes a difference to me.
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The "don't store it cocked" advice seems to stem from the idea that all springs will "take a set", but this isn't the case. Good quality springs won't take a set, and there's no worry about having a load on them all the time. Who knows who actually uses good springs, though, I suppose. I've replaced a firing pin spring before that I thought was suspect, but it might have been fine. What I've gathered is a weakened firing pin spring can start introducing some inconsistency in ignition leading to a bit larger SD. Has anyone actually had experience with one causing ignition failures? Seems like that would have to be quite a lot of weakening, but who knows? Any first-hand experience with that here?
8 guns out of 10 right out of the box do this quality is one step below chunk .
I retail outlets does not even take them in for repair they should all go to gretch or who ever the warranty people are .
Not sure why in 2023 a firearm manufacture is incapable of making a firearm that actually works
I retail outlets does not even take them in for repair they should all go to gretch or who ever the warranty people are .
Not sure why in 2023 a firearm manufacture is incapable of making a firearm that actually works
easyrider604
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Greater Vancouver, BC
For what its worth, I have left bolts and hammers of all kinds in the cocked position from months to years. None of the firearms suffered unreliable ignition at all.
Yes, good quality and properly specified springs will not take a "set" even if left in the cocked position for 50 years. The reason is that good quality steel springs will not take a "set" unless stretched or compressed beyond its elastic limit. The elastic limit of properly designed firing pin springs, or magazine springs will never be exceeded even if fully compressed for many decades. For example, I read about a WWII 1911 magazine that was loaded with 7 rounds for 50+ years since the war. It was loaded into a pistol and fired off every round reliably. Not only did the cartridges fire, the magazine fed properly.
What will wear out springs is the number of cycles. The more and the deeper the strokes, the faster a spring will wear out. Some springs are only stroked through say, 25% of its maximum before reaching its elastic limit. These springs will last longer than springs that were stroked to 90% of its elastic limit. These factors will cause most if not all, springs to eventually fail due to fatigue.
I believe Savage manufactures well designed and spec'd out rifles. The firing pin spring should not weaken from extended cocked positions. But then again, who knows. Disassemble the bolt, clean and lube lightly. Try shooting it. Or just return the rifle to Savage for service. It may not even be a spring issue but a headspace issue as stated earlier.
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These riles use the bolt handle as their locking lug. If the base of the handle or the mating notch in the receiver wears.( and they will!),the head space can increase to the point that you get light strikes. The old Cooeys suffered from the same design. An easy fix is to build up the face of the notch slightly, or the rear of the bolt handle. I would lean towards doing the receiver, as I suspect the bolt handle is only soldered to the bolt the same as a Cooey. To much heat there is not a good thing. A spot of tig welding and dress it down with a file or stone till it will close tight again. The receivers and bolt handles are soft to start with which is why they wear like they do, so not a lot of worry about losing temper doing the job (well... other than your own). Hope you can get it running .....catnip
OP I assuming by the way this post was written you were not having issues with this before the gun was stored for a while??
I'd second the suggestion you try without the stock to eliminate that as a variable. After that I'd blast the bolt with a can of brake cleaner to help clear out any oil or grease that may be causing issues.
Seems like a weird problem to have after long term storage with the bolt out though? Seems like the kind of problem that would require use so the parts are rubbing and wearing?
I'd second the suggestion you try without the stock to eliminate that as a variable. After that I'd blast the bolt with a can of brake cleaner to help clear out any oil or grease that may be causing issues.
Seems like a weird problem to have after long term storage with the bolt out though? Seems like the kind of problem that would require use so the parts are rubbing and wearing?
take the bolt apart
at least pull out the firing pin and clean it and the groove it rides in (it's as simple as pushing out the roll-pin)
the firing pin is inertia driven so any gunking/gumming results in reduced strike power
at least pull out the firing pin and clean it and the groove it rides in (it's as simple as pushing out the roll-pin)
the firing pin is inertia driven so any gunking/gumming results in reduced strike power
OP mentions forward pressure on the bolt will result in firing. To me that indicates wear, however it happened. Perhaps a combination of a bit of wear ,a bit of sludge/gunk in the bolt, stiffened up from non use and slowing the strike down , maybe even some spring set, if the spring is of same quality as the rest of these rifles seem to be .....catnip
I suppose this is possible. But my club's junior program Savage Mk I's have been used for years and MANY thousands of rounds and not one of them has worn to that point.
I'm going with the idea that the old oil or grease gummed up a little and it's slowing the firing pin. Adding pressure to the bolt's tail piece would "fix" this but so would a soak in some lacquer thinner and working the action and working the firing pin by holding the trigger while you close and open the bolt to #### and release it without letting it snap. Then drain it and let it dry and oil it lightly with some light body gun oil. Don't over do it as too much oil acts like a shock absorber and slows the snap of the pin. And it's that fast snap you need.
This. There is just no way the rifle wore out while sitting and highly doubtful it's had enough use to cause headspace problems. It's either gummed up or something is bent, misaligned or otherwise out of whack from trying to get the bolt back in. OP could you expand on the "thumb on the bolt" thing? Are you doing that to get the striker to fire or using thumb pressure as additional spring pressure?
