.243 vs .30-30 on deer?
- Thread starter philthygeezer
- Start date
- Location
- The Conservative part of Ontario
Both are quite capable inside a hundred yards. Best bullet for the 243 will probably be a premium however. I've taken a good number of deer with cast bullets in the 30-30. Do that with a 243?
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
Visually might help explain . . .
All 3 bullets are .375 caliber; A 270 gr XLC @2800, a 300 gr X @2600, and a 380 gr Rhino@2300. Both of the Xs expanded to .72" but the Rhino expanded to .92"
Republic of Alberta
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- ,location, location
The only bullets that usually get wider and wider the further they peel back are bonded ones with a copper jacket that is uniform all the way down the shank. So ya a really long one could get wider than a shorter one, but you would have to drive the long one faster than the short one or have a thinner jacket on it so it could actually peel back.
Visually might help explain . . .
All 3 bullets are .375 caliber; A 270 gr XLC @2800, a 300 gr X @2600, and a 380 gr Rhino@2300. Both of the Xs expanded to .72" but the Rhino expanded to .92"
Both X's also shed their petals, so they likely expanded wider than that. Not the same comparison at all, comparing a mono to a lead core bullet. Did they all retain the same weight ratio?
Not really....I could do the same with different bullets of all the same weight. I thought you were talking about using identical bullets...only increasing weight. Using bullets of different construction only proves that bullets of different construction expand differently....no surprise there. You'd be better off measuring with a caliper as well.....I think your expanded diameters are quite generous.
So what your really trying to say is saying is 7-08.
I have been told in the past that .223 works great on seal... headshots.
Anyway.
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So what your really trying to say is saying is 7-08.
Yes... Yes, I believe that is precisely what I am saying... Thanks to this thread, I feel compelled to sell all my .243's and .30/30's... I fear that I have lost confidence in their abilities...
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
In this case, the 380 gr bullet was much slower, 500 fps slower than the 270 gr, and 300 fps slower than the 300 gr. and all three went into the same medium 20' off the muzzle. So if we compare an 85 gr 6mm TSX to the as yet imaginary bonded solid shank 125 gr 6mm bullet, a similar relationship in terminal performance might be expected.
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
So what your really trying to say is saying is 7-08.
I have been told in the past that .223 works great on seal... headshots.
Anyway.
Yes, a .22 centerfire with almost any bullet is effective on seals when headshots are made. But sometimes there are extenuating circumstances.
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
How do you suppose I measured to two decimal points with a tape measure? Disagree with my observations, findings, and opinions all you like, but I would appreciate it if you did not challenge my honesty.
At the risk of being chastized for interrupting a bullet construction and expansion debate...
To the op... What is your skill level / shooting experience / comfort level... In my opinion, get a 30.06 or a .308 and be done with it.... Worry about all this nonsense when you get used to harvesting game with the 30 cals.... I'm not a 30/30 fan but if it's all you have use it and take responsible shots.... No need to try and do the long range stuff with a .243.... Much better out there (including the two above) for that purpose...
To the op... What is your skill level / shooting experience / comfort level... In my opinion, get a 30.06 or a .308 and be done with it.... Worry about all this nonsense when you get used to harvesting game with the 30 cals.... I'm not a 30/30 fan but if it's all you have use it and take responsible shots.... No need to try and do the long range stuff with a .243.... Much better out there (including the two above) for that purpose...
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
While its true that the petals broke off both Xs, when these bullets fully expand to the very bottom of the cavity, the petals tend to break off or lie along the shank. The 380's recovered weight is 363.4 grs for 96%, the 300 X's recovered weight is 211.7 grs for 78%, and the 270 X's recovered weight was 192.9 grs for 71%.
Easy big guy....I was challenging your methodology not your honestly....but I'm guessing you knew that. I still say the X bullets aren't nearly 2x expansion. Have you actually done this test with bullets of identical construction but of different weight.
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Range time between 20 and 40 times a year for rifle, mostly offhand shooting at 50 m with .22LR, .223. Once in awhile I'll bring out something larger. Been shooting off and on for about 25 years up until a few years ago when I started going regularly, but never at longer ranges than about 250 m. I can hold about 2-3" off hand at 50 m, 6-8" off-hand at 100 m, and with any rest I can shoot probably half that. Benched I can shoot less than 1/2 MOA. Prone with a .222 sporter last year at 200 m (250?) was about a 4-6" group (wasn't my gun). I need to practice 3P at 200 and 300 m. I like the sitting position best - easy and quicker to plant my butt and get a good rest with a sling. I don't plan on off-hand shooting at game unless very close, and I rarely ever have. I think this attitude would make me effective out to about 250 m.
I haven't hunted in many years but am planning to do so in the near future. I haven't shot my first deer - it was mostly small game back then and I got skunked for the seasons I went deer hunting. I have .243 and .30-30, and the question came up as a means of identifying redundancy in the safe. I also have .270, .308, .30-06, .338, .375 H&H and like them. As you can tell, redundancy isn't something I control well.
The notion is perhaps to turf the lever action and stick with bolt actions of the same model, thereby becoming a pretty good shot with any of them. Practice with one will feed into the others. So I thought maybe sell the .30-30 and use the .243 bolt action for a bush gun. The other thought was to load the .308 with 170 grain .30-30 bullets and get the same performance. But if the .243 will do fine then it's good out to my self-imposed hunting range.Hunting-wise, I would probably keep my shots to 250 m or less depending on my rest. Probably would pass up most things over 200 m and try to stalk closer. Again, I did a poll on here awhile back and 95% of all big game shots were taken under 200 m, so I'm not really worried about all the long range banter. More concerned about matching the round to the game within my chosen parameters.
I'd like to see how the average FTR competitor groups at 600 and 800 meters on paper in ideal conditions with a rest with a 14 pound 30" bull-barreled .308, Nightforce Hubble Special with external adjustments, wind flags, known ranges, known declinations, and target ammo. Take this ideal and then change to a 7-8 pound sporting rifle with a lighter barrel and a heavier trigger, your pack or your knees for a rest, 3-9x40mm or 4x scope, weather, wind, bushes, tall grass and trees, bouncing walking moving breathing deer with real animal lives who could really suffer if you #### it up, and all the excitement and trepidation that goes along with that shot, and I think that it's appropriate to give the poor thing a good margin of safety on shooting it. At the very least, we owe the animal that. Of course when I'm a pro 600 m shot who can guesstimate wind, I might think differently.
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I knew that the others in the safe could handle deer without issue, but wanted to see what others thought of the .243 and .30-30 since they recoil about the same and have about the same energy.
Thanks all! Pretty good discussion here.
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