243 vs 6.5 Creedmoor

Nothing special for either cartridge when it comes to reloading, 243 is a great deer rifle with proper bullets. I have taken many whitetail and mule deer with a 100gr Hornady bullets. Don't own a 6.5 CM but have shot one a fair bit, it will hit with more energy at longer range than a 243. 6.5 has a greater selection of bullets but there are a lot of good choices for the 243. Possibly 243 components are easier to find due to the 6.5 demand these days, both can use a wide range of powders. The shorter neck on the 243 case has been mentioned as a con, not much concern for the average hunter. The 6mm Rem was a better case than the 243 but it has pretty much disappeared. Lighter recoil has been mentioned as a pro for the 243, but stock fit has a lot to do with the felt recoil. I would have no problem starting a person out with a 243 if deer is the main game, and inside 300 yards.
 
IvoB said:
what erodes the barrel in the 243 is the angle of the neck - its pushing all the gases into the barrel at high pressure - when you take a few shots in a row the barrel heats up also - as I mentioned in another post - a good solution to the 243 would be the 240 wby round - as for the 6.5 creed it was designed as a paper punching out to the next county - brass isn't cheap for the 240wby but you will enjoy reloading them at a fraction of the cost
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The neck is straight, as with all cartridges I can think of.
 
For your intended purpose at .243 will be fine, it has served many for decades before the 6.5 creed and ammo is available anywhere. All these other cals like the .260 or 6.5x55....hard to find ammo in rural areas and even brass is difficult locally, least here in southern sask.
 
Chilly807 said:
So, maybe it's more accurate to say the 243 will erode the throat faster than a 6.5 will.
I don't see much difference in reloading the two calibers.

As the 6.5 gets more popular, brass is becoming easier to find. Hornady, Lapua, Petersen, all offer 6.5 CM brass. Buy 2 boxes of Hornady ELD-X factory loads and you'll have 40 pieces of brass to play with after sighting and breaking in the new rifle. That's more than enough for hunting use.

I agree with many that the 6.5 is a more versatile rifle. More energy for larger game if necessary, plus you can still get lighter bullets for coyotes and other varmints.
Recoil is heavier than the 243, but less than a 308.

Most 6.5's are 1 in 8 twist, they'll shoot all but the heaviest match bullets.

If you go the 243 route, look for a faster twist than 1 in 10 if at all possible.
I shoot 90 gr Accubonds from my Tikka (1 in 10), heavier bullets often recommend a faster twist.
Savage 243 barrels are usually 1 in 9.25"
I'd hunt deer with my 243, but in the back of my mind is that shot placement is more critical with the lighter bullet. Heavier bullets do better through bone and brush if the shot is less than perfect.
I think a 243 is an ideal coyote rifle that within limits can do double duty on deer.
Wounded animals are a nightmare none of us need to deal with.
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A 1:10 twist 243win will generally fire everything on the market up to 100gr pills. It won't work for the 105+gr vld bullets but realistically you don't need more than a 90gr accubond or 95gr partition to kill a deer out to 300yds.

I would argue the opposite, that the 243 is a great deer cartridge that can do double duty on dogs and cats.

As for wounded animals, that's far more about shot placement than cartridge choice - guys kill deer with 223rem all the time where its legal to do so, not to mention handgun hunting stateside.

One of my good friends has used one for years, he's in a wheelchair and without use of his legs he prefers the lighter recoil. He could shoot a 30-06 if he wanted (he's not a small frail person by any means) but he's never had in issue killing stuff with the 243 so sees no reason to switch.
 
If your reloading the conversation ends at 6.5mm. The Rem 260 or 6.5CM is one of the most versatile cartridges from varmints up to elk size critters or long distance shooting. There is a slight velocity advantage to the 260 Rem for hunting, slight long range advantage to the 6.5CM.
 
Ganderite said:
You realize that a 6.5x55 Swede is similar in power to the Creed? It is another option, although I don't know if Savage, Winchester or Ruger offer that caliber.
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Savage never made 6.5x55. Winchester did some in the past but not for a long time. Ruger still makes lever action single shot, very expensive. The options now are Tikka and Sako here in Canada, both excellent.
For handloaders 6.5x55 has an advantage over the 6.5 Creed. Both 6.5 have advantages over the 243, not the least a longer barrel rifle and longer killing distance for deer, with only a bit more recoil.
 
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mimile said:
Savage never made 6.5x55. Winchester did some in the past but not for a long time. Ruger still makes lever action single shot, very expensive. The options now are Tikka and Sako here in Canada, both excellent.
For handloaders 6.5x55 had an advantage over the 6.5 Creed. Both 6.5 have advantages over the 243, not the least a longer barrel rifle and longer killing distance for deer, with only a bit more recoil.
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What advantage does the Swede have over the Creed for handloaders?
 
mimile said:
Savage never made 6.5x55. Winchester did some in the past but not for a long time. Ruger still makes lever action single shot, very expensive. The options now are Tikka and Sako here in Canada, both excellent.
For handloaders 6.5x55 has an advantage over the 6.5 Creed. Both 6.5 have advantages over the 243, not the least a longer barrel rifle and longer killing distance for deer, with only a bit more recoil.
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Barrel life is a moot point for a hunting rifle. They'll both last into the thousands of rounds and the average hunter would never wear either of them out. Killing distance is a pretty negligible difference too, both will take game out to 400 yds - hell, Federal Premium has a load for the 243 thats a 95gr Berger at 3050fps, which holds 2043fps to 500yds, which is farther than 99% of hunters should ever shoot. Alternatively, Federals loading of the 100gr sierra gameking is holding 1964fps @ 500yds. As a comparison, options for the 6.5CM include a 130gr scirrocco starts at 2800 which drops to 2054 @ 500, while the 140 Accubond starts at 2675 and drops to 1870 by 500yds. (All numbers are from Federal Premiums website)

So basically the 243 starts faster, but the 6.5 holds velocity better. The difference between the two within 500yds is almost nil, the 243 will tend to drop a bit less while the 6.5 will tend to have slightly less wind drift. Past 500yds is where the 6.5s start to shine, but thats target rifle talk not hunting rifle talk.

mimile said:
You can handload the 160 grain. You can get the same speeds with the 6.5x55 at lower pressures or higher speeds at similar pressures as the 6.5 CM.
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You could handload the 160 into either I would think? The 6.5x55 does have a bit more case capacity though (Nosler lists 46.8 vs 50.2 w/140gr pills) which would give you a bit more velocity if loaded to the same pressures. A lot of factory 6.5x55 ammo is on the anemic side, because of old milsurp rifles, but in a modern rifle like a Tikka there is no reason you couldn't load it to 60k psi. (Saami spec is only 51k)
 
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A 1:8 twist 243 is hard to beat, ballistically-speaking. Out of a bolt action you don't usually have the same COL limitation as an AR10 magazine. I can load a stock Savage to just over 2.9" COL. A 103 ELD-X at 3000+ fps would shoot pretty flat. My wife's stock Savage is a 9.25 twist which is decent but not ideal. Can't run those low-drag 103 to 115 gr bullets.

In a shorter magazine a 6mm Creedmoor would be pretty sweet, too. And it has a better throat design if we are considering factory SAAMI chambers. Same applies to the 6.5 CM, btw. If the largest game for this rifle is deer and black bear, I wouldn't hesitate to use a 243. The 6.5 Creedmoor is still a bit light for moose and elk but it'll kill them. Then again, I've seen moose killed with a single 90gr Accubond from a 243. Bore a decent hole in the lungs and wait for it to fall over!
 
Suther said:
Barrel life is a moot point for a hunting rifle. They'll both last into the thousands of rounds and the average hunter would never wear either of them out. Killing distance is a pretty negligible difference too, both will take game out to 400 yds - hell, Federal Premium has a load for the 243 thats a 95gr Berger at 3050fps, which holds 2043fps to 500yds, which is farther than 99% of hunters should ever shoot. Alternatively, Federals loading of the 100gr sierra gameking is holding 1964fps @ 500yds. As a comparison, options for the 6.5CM include a 130gr scirrocco starts at 2800 which drops to 2054 @ 500, while the 140 Accubond starts at 2675 and drops to 1870 by 500yds. (All numbers are from Federal Premiums website)

So basically the 243 starts faster, but the 6.5 holds velocity better. The difference between the two within 500yds is almost nil, the 243 will tend to drop a bit less while the 6.5 will tend to have slightly less wind drift. Past 500yds is where the 6.5s start to shine, but thats target rifle talk not hunting rifle talk.



You could handload the 160 into either I would think? The 6.5x55 does have a bit more case capacity though (Nosler lists 46.8 vs 50.2 w/140gr pills) which would give you a bit more velocity if loaded to the same pressures. A lot of factory 6.5x55 ammo is on the anemic side, because of old milsurp rifles, but in a modern rifle like a Tikka there is no reason you couldn't load it to 60k psi. (Saami spec is only 51k)
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Suther,
There is a big difference between killing power and punching holes on paper. The 'useful' killing range of a 243 for deer is 250 max, and that's pushing it. This has to do with the weight and diameter of the bullet. From the other side, the barrel life for a 308 is longer than the 6.5 CM which in turn is longer than the 243. it is about physics. The 6.5 CM and 243 are both necked down 308, pressure increases with increasing shoulder slope and with it barrel life goes down.
Finally for the 160 grain, there is a reason why Hornady does not offer a factory load for it and it is the limited speed one would get. The CM case capacity is considerably lower than the 6.5x55 and the COL as well. You can not put enough powder in a 6.5CM to make the 160 go fast. Hodgdon, Western, and Norma do not even offer loading data for the 160 with CM. Only Hornady does, which is understandable. Compare that with 2600 fps from a Tikka 6.5x55 with 22.4 inch barrel. One can use this load for almost anything in North America within 250 yards. And I know many who do.
I am perfectly aware that the 6.5CM is way more available than the 6.5x55 when it comes to rifle choice and factory ammo. I personally see some advantages to the 6.5x55 and use one. I handload so availability for me is not an issue. When it comes to deer hunting, the 6.5x55 offers a great killing range, a great choice of bullet weights, with minimal recoil. I think it is perfectly balanced. I know many who are also perfectly happy with 6.5CM. It has been a long time since I realized that any hunting bullet, weighing 100 to 180 grain, in 257 caliber to 308 will kill deer within 300 yards if it is well shot. Some will kill faster and some slower. The rest is personal preference i guess.
 
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mimile said:
Suther,
There is a big difference between killing power and punching holes on paper. The 'useful' killing range of a 243 for deer is 250 max, and that's pushing it. This has to do with the weight and diameter of the bullet. From the other side, the barrel life for a 308 is longer than the 6.5 CM which in turn is longer than the 243. it is about physics. The 6.5 CM and 243 are both necked down 308, pressure increases with increasing shoulder slope and with it barrel life goes down.
Finally for the 160 grain, there is a reason why Hornady does not offer a factory load for it and it is the limited speed one would get. The CM case capacity is considerably lower than the 6.5x55 and the COL as well. You can not put enough powder in a 6.5CM to make the 160 go fast. Hodgdon, Western, and Norma do not even offer loading data for the 160 with CM. Only Hornady does, which is understandable. Compare that with 2600 fps from a Tikka 6.5x55 with 22.4 inch barrel. One can use this load for almost anything in North America within 250 yards. And I know many who do.
I am perfectly aware that the 6.5CM is way more available than the 6.5x55 when it comes to rifle choice and factory ammo. I personally see some advantages to the 6.5x55 and use one. I handload so availability for me is not an issue. I know many who are also perfectly happy with 6.5CM. It has been a long time since I realized that any hunting bullet, weighing 100 to 180 grain, in 257 caliber to 308 will kill deer within 300 yards if it is well shot. Some will kill faster and some slower. The rest is personal preference i guess.
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Hogwash. The 100gr sierra gameking starting at 2960fps has 2145fps @400yds, and retains 1041 ft/lbs of energy. Fast enough for the bullet to expand? Check. Enough energy to kill a deer? Check. There is NO reason that the 243 should be considered limited to 250yds to kill a deer, it will absolutely kill them farther than that reliably and without issue. Just like any hunting, especially at longer ranges, its all about shot placement - put a 100gr soft point through a deer broadside and its going down unless your velocity is so low the bullet doesn't expand properly.

As for barrel life, it doesn't matter. Burning out barrels is the talk of target and varmint shooters, not big game hunters (with obvious exceptions for ludicrous magnums and such). A 243 will be good for at least 2000 rounds, which is multiple times what the average hunter puts through their rifle in a lifetime. And thats not even considering the fact that a shot out target barrel is still usually plenty accurate enough for big game hunting - you don't need 1/4" groups to kill a deer at 200yds.
 
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Suther said:
Hogwash. The 100gr sierra gameking starting at 2960fps has 2145fps @400yds, and retains 1041 ft/lbs of energy. Fast enough for the bullet to expand? Check. Enough energy to kill a deer? Check. There is NO reason that the 243 should be considered limited to 250yds to kill a deer, it will absolutely kill them farther than that reliably and without issue. Just like any hunting, especially at longer ranges, its all about shot placement - put a 100gr soft point through a deer broadside and its going down unless your velocity is so low the bullet doesn't expand properly.

As for barrel life, it doesn't matter. Burning out barrels is the talk of target and varmint shooters, not big game hunters (with obvious exceptions for ludicrous magnums and such). A 243 will be good for at least 2000 rounds, which is multiple times what the average hunter puts through their rifle in a lifetime. And thats not even considering the fact that a shot out target barrel is still usually plenty accurate enough for big game hunting - you don't need 1/4" groups to kill a deer at 200yds.
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No need to keep this discussion with you.
 
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