243 vs downloaded 308 for youth shooter

Morpheus32

Morpheus32

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Good day,

I need some advise. I am getting my 11 year old son a rifle to get him prepared and motivated for hunting and as a life long possession. I have decided on a ruger compact but have a couple of concepts for caliber. First was 243. 55 gr bullets to start so there will be little recoil and concentrate on first principles of shooting. As he gains experience....and body size....increase the bullet weights as needed. The flip side is the caliber is good for deer but on the low end for other big game. The other concept was to get a 308 and download bullets and move up to normal weights. The idea being the rifle would be suitable for larger game.

Other factors in the estimate. I reload. I have a number of rifles in 308 and none so far in 243. I have three identical scope NIB for this project. I have a 7 year old son and a 5 year old daughter. My thought was the 243 would be passed down as the oldest became comfortable with the 308 and all I do is purchase an identical ruger compact in 308. Same configuration, scope and skill set....

I would be curious to opinions on the caliber selection for a new shooter. Gut says lightly loaded 55 gr 243 is the way to go....but having one caliber is also appealing. Your thoughts? Having discussed this offline with a number of people....a number are thinking the same way and asking similar questions....

Cheers

Jeff
 
Id suggest you look past the 243 and go with a 260 Remington. A load of 85 grain Sierra's over 30 grains of H4895 would be extremely low recoiling (comparable to a 223 or 22-250) and going 2300 fps, will make shooting out to 200 yards easy.

A guy could go up from there, a deer hunting load featuring a 100 grain Nosler Partition @ 2800 fps will take deer out to 250 yards no problem.

When he older yet, he will be shooting 140 grainers @ 2600+ fps with ease.

my .02$, the 260 is a very versatile cartridge for the handloader
 
My son is 14 now, he shot my 7mm mag when he was 12. I guess recoil is different for everyone. He didn't start out with the 7 mag but rather worked up to it from the 222, 22-250, 303, 308, 30-06 and then the 7 mag.
I am waiting till he packs on a few more pounds before he touches off the 338, no sense scaring him off and hurting him at the same time.
 
working up recoil tolerance by shooting smaller cartridges and going up is a good way to do it, but when a guy handloads, he can do the same thing with one rifle :) I shot a 7mm Mag from age 15, and I dont think I flinched much at all, but remember being bruised alot! :D
 
7mm mag

There was a couple of times that he shot the 7 mag and I knew it stung him a bit. I asked him if it hurt, but he said no and we went on shooting. We did go to a smaller caliber because I advised him to let the barrel cool off for a while. He was fine with that.....:D
 
I went through this very same situation a few years ago with my 12 year old son.

I ended up buying him a BLR in 308. I loaded it mild to start and now he is 17 years old and still shoots his BLR with regular loads for what ever we are hunting.

I believe the decision I made was the correct one for these reasons.

--When my dad gave me my first rifle is was a life long memory, I still own that rifle and always will....because it was MY first rifle. Well that said my son has those same memories only his rifle is a BLR and mine was a Savage 99.
--My son still shoots the same rifle and scope combo that he learnt on / started out with, he knows his rifle and how to operate it well.
--Now he is capable of hunting anything with his rifle, we just load it accordingly.

Just keep in mind that a 243 is no easier to shoot than a mild 308. Ya, the 243 my not recoil but any 243 that I have shot has lots of muzzel jump and that is just as bad for creating a flinch as any recoil is.

My suggestion is to go buy your son a 308 that will be his for life, teach him to care for it and respect it and tell him that with the proper care that rifle will last him for his lifetime. The memories will come later in his life when he realizes what his father has taught him and the oppurtonites that you provided for him.

Then repeat this recipe for each upcomming hunter/child in your family, this will be a life long hunting party that you will cherrish more and more each passing year. The kids will look forward to each and every hunt with dad and before you know it you will have to start teaching the grandchilden the ways of the wild.

Each and every year there will be more hunting stories that need to be remembered and told over and over again, this is a very important job for dad/grandpa.

What we teach our kids today is what they remember tomorrow (we hope).

Sorry ,I got off on a rant, but this topic of kids and hunting is dear to my heart. And I want every kid to have the chances that our parants gave to us.

Good luck, and enjoy your up and comming hunting buddies!
 
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Good points on the 308. It will make my reloading easier with one caliber. What is the smallest 30 bullet you can get? What would be the smallest load and bullet for hunting a deer? Thoughts?

Jeff
 
I like the 168gr ballistic tip!!work great on deer I think Remington make reduced recoil rounds for the 308


I also really like the 243 as you can use any Mag that the 308 uses!!


I am building a 243 on a 700action for wolves and deer


Jamie Barkwell
 
Morpheus32 said:
Good points on the 308. It will make my reloading easier with one caliber. What is the smallest 30 bullet you can get? What would be the smallest load and bullet for hunting a deer? Thoughts?

Jeff
Click to expand...

Jeff,

Your son is 12 years old, sit down with him and go through your reloading manual. Let him be a part of the decision on what load you guys are going to make for the up and comming hunt. Let him lube the cases and polish some brass. Explain a few simple concepts on what tragectory and ft/lbs of energy are in words he can understand.

Next time you go to a gun shop buy 10 nickel plated cases (just so they look different) and load them one step hotter (even 1/2gr so the POI is close to the same) than the rest. Be sure you son knows that they are made to hit harder. Just watch your child as he gets excited and listen to the words he speaks at the supper table. "Dad should put the silver bullets in my gun when a buck comes out?" ;)

It dosn't really matter that you get the lightest possible bullet made, it is all about involving the kids and them understanding what is going on.

I started my son with 150 gr bullets and for deer he still shoots 150s.

He is not a big kid, at 17 he stands 5'7" and 155lbs.

Be sure you get a gun that fits him, I started my son with a 308 BLR because I wanted a removable clip and a easy to handle short action rifle.

I bought him a nice sling and a case for it and for the first 2 years he shot with open sights. Two years ago I bought a scope for him and now he shoots with it.

If you sell you son on the idea that this is his rifle and the load is made just for him so he can shoot his big buck....He will make it work!

If you tell him over and over that the gun will kick him on his ass, guess where the grass stains will be!

This is a life long lesson that can't be explained in a few words, I think the name of the concept is called "PARENTING" enjoy it!

I hope you don't feel I am telling you how to raise your children. That is by no means my intent although when I reread my words it could come across as that.

I am simply relaying my experience that I went through a few years ago and now when I discuse things with my son he has a well rounded knowlege of many things. Most times it even surprises me just how well the kids of today can grasp things if we can keep them away from the evils that present themselves.

WOW, I am usually a man of few words.:eek:
 
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Speer makes a 100 grain round nosed bullet in 30 caliber

you could load 150 grain bullets @ 2400 fps and duplicate the 30-30, that will kill deer just fine out to 200 yards. Another way to go would load a 125 grain Ballistic Tip to 2600 fps.

I still think the 260 is a better cartridge for this application though :p
 
I would say use full house loads for feild, and reduced loads for practice(in .308). My first deer I never felt the recoil ect anyway lol. A good soft recoil pad is a must for younger people with less meat in this area.

There is nothing wrong with the .243 either, but I wouldn't download it, and 100grain bullets seem to work for deer quite well. .308 has the ability to be used on larger game than deer(moose, elk, blackbear). I don't think I would use the .243 for these.
 
Boys rifle

Morpheus32 said:
Good day,

I need some advise. I am getting my 11 year old son a rifle to get him prepared and motivated for hunting and as a life long possession. I have decided on a ruger compact but have a couple of concepts for caliber. First was 243. 55 gr bullets to start so there will be little recoil and concentrate on first principles of shooting. As he gains experience....and body size....increase the bullet weights as needed. The flip side is the caliber is good for deer but on the low end for other big game. The other concept was to get a 308 and download bullets and move up to normal weights. The idea being the rifle would be suitable for larger game.

Other factors in the estimate. I reload. I have a number of rifles in 308 and none so far in 243. I have three identical scope NIB for this project. I have a 7 year old son and a 5 year old daughter. My thought was the 243 would be passed down as the oldest became comfortable with the 308 and all I do is purchase an identical ruger compact in 308. Same configuration, scope and skill set....

I would be curious to opinions on the caliber selection for a new shooter. Gut says lightly loaded 55 gr 243 is the way to go....but having one caliber is also appealing. Your thoughts? Having discussed this offline with a number of people....a number are thinking the same way and asking similar questions....

Cheers

Jeff
Click to expand...

A lucky family, to have a Dad like you! I went for the larger bore, loaded down, away down. When my oldest son was about six I was shooting lead alloy bullets in my 30-06. I loaded them down to about the velocity of a 38 special, checked to see that there wasn't enough recoil to push the gun back, when he had his arm over the stock, and he thought it was great. Quite a few years later we were at full power. Did the same for number two.
When the grand sons came along I got a 44 Mag Marlin rifle with a peep sight. With it and lead bullets loaded way down it still made a good bang and a large hole. The kids loved it and from an early age I had them shooting off hand, with no rest whatsoever. Later, when it was loaded full power, I set a a smaller cardboard box down range, had him load three in the magazine and told him the box was a bear coming at us and I told him not to take the gun from his shoulder. My grand son could put three quite fast ones into a smaller area in the box than I could, and I have been shooting so long that I hate to say how many years! Good luck, and either method you mention is good.
 
I consider 260,7-08 and 308 as lifetime type rounds.

Hodgdon has youth load data posted on thier website and in their manual, it uses reduced changes of h4895. They also post you can safely reduce any H4895 data down to 60% of max. though I tried that with a 243 I had and did not get very good accuracy results though the youth data seems to be more in the order of 75% of max.

I'd second a reduced change with the 130 bt's.

I had also tried reduced load using bluedot in that same 243 I got suprisingly good results, search www.accuratereloading.com for a number of topics on the subject.
 
Jeff,

If you go with the .308, you can get the plated bullets from Marstar for practice. I believe they have the 110 gr bullets intended for the .30 carbine.
 
john-brennan said:
I agree with Tod get a 260 or 7mm08 and your son will have a gun for life, my son was able to shoot the 7mm08 at 11 with no recoil problem.
Click to expand...

+3 to a 260 or 7mm08. And these aren't *just* youth rounds, either. There's no need to ever step up to anthing bigger for deer. Even for moose/elk, these are quite adequate (I *prefer* the 338, but acknowledge that the 260 & 7-08 are also sufficient)
 
I have a 12 year old that was shooting a 30-30 to start (at 10), when he got his first bear. He then tried a 270 with a Limbsaver recoil pad. Now shoots a Browning Medallion A-Bolt in 308. It has a muzzle brake and Kickeze recoil pad he like the 308 best. He can group 150's in 1 to 1 1/2 inch groups. He like the 308 best as he says the recoil is the lowest in this rifle (I think the muzzle break is the difference). He only weighs 80 pounds wet at 5'2"
 
I would load 150s at moderate velocities (2400-2600) for deer and things would work out fine.
A bullet I have always liked for the 308 is the 125gr Sierra. Loaded to around 2700, it is very pleasant to shoot and has always been a very accurate bullet. At 2700 or less, it will work fine on deer as lond as one avoids "raking" shots.
The 308 is a truly versatile round which would provide a lifetime of good service. In truth, we could all hunt with nothing else and wouldn't really be handicapped at all. My vote is for the 308.
The 243 lacks the versatility. In fact, I consider them ( and all other 6mms) a borderline deer rifle. Regards, Bill.
 
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