243 Win vs. 6mm CM... Another redundant Cartridge from Hornady?

Goose762 said:
It's absolutely wild how many people look at a new bench rest cartridge and go "this is redundant" or "the gain is only a couple hundred FPS" without realizing that the target market is not replacing every 243, 260, 6.5 creed or whatever else. While we're on the subject it's ridiculous just how many people try to put down the 6.5 creed because "the 6.5x55 exists" totally ignoring it's a higher pressure cartridge that neatly fits perfectly into short actions.

These calibers are for bench rest shooters who rebarrel every single season as a rule and spend thousands of dollars each year trying to not just get get decent groups but send every round through the same exact hole.

They're living in a world where the dies they use cost almost an order of magnitude more than Lee's that will get the job done for 99% of shooters out there, use laboratory analytical balances that go to four decimal points, already match grade brass and bullets are hand sorted for weight/concentricity, and use all manner of black magic rituals and blood sacrifices to get their rifles shooting the way they do. Things most people don't even think about like the case capacity, geometry, and shoulder angles are all fussed over.

At the point when you're already rebarreling frequently getting into a new caliber is just a new set of dies and some brass. With all the time, effort, and money that already goes into competitive accuracy shooting it's frankly trivial to switch to the new latest and greatest chambering offered.

The goal isn't to replace the 243, it's chasing the ultimate in accuracy competing with other guys trying just as hard to do the same.
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I haven't seen much movement away from the 6 ppc in benchrest circles. Most of these new cartridges are designed for other disciplines, I think. - dan
 
I enjoy shooting and hunting with my .243 diameter cartridges, the 6mm Remington and 240 Weatherby, the bigger .243's. They are fun to shoot at the range, because of their less-felt recoil and inherited accuracy. The antelope in my avatar was killed with the 240 Wby.,(3,682 fps 90 grain accubond) along with a 400 pound mule deer buck.
I like the 6mm Creedmoor however, perfer the 243 Winchester, hence more handloading data available to shoot the lighter bullets.
 
track said:
I enjoy shooting and hunting with my .243 diameter cartridges, the 6mm Remington and 240 Weatherby, the bigger .243's. They are fun to shoot at the range, because of their less-felt recoil and inherited accuracy. The antelope in my avatar was killed with the 240 Wby.,(3,682 fps 90 grain accubond) along with a 400 pound mule deer buck.
I like the 6mm Creedmoor however, perfer the 243 Winchester, hence more handloading data available to shoot the lighter bullets.
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I prefer the 6mm Rem over the 243, but own examples of both. I have a 240 Gibbs, with a gain twist barrel, that I built for long range pronghorn. Works well on white tails too. My fastest 6mm was a 6mm Mach IV. I built it after reading an article by Seyfried. Basically it's a 7mm Rem Mag case, necked down to 6mm with the shoulders moved slightly forward and blown out. Got some phenomenal bullet speeds out of that one. Went through the barrel quicker than I would have wished, but it was an interesting experiment. Would likely be better today with faster twist barrels and slower powders. - dan
 
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Goose762 said:
These calibers are for bench rest shooters who rebarrel every single season as a rule and spend thousands of dollars each year trying to not just get get decent groups but send every round through the same exact hole.
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I betcha at least 5 rifles in 6/6.5cm sell to guys who will never rebarrel a gun for every guy that will...

Plus a lot of those guys who do rebarrel are using more niche cartridges like 6br and dasher. The creedmoors are the easy button for high BC moderate recoil and really good accuracy, but they're not necessarily the best option.
 
dan belisle said:
I prefer the 6mm Rem over the 243, but own examples of both. I have a 240 Gibbs, with a gain twist barrel, that I built for long range pronghorn. Works well on white tails too. My fastest 6mm was a 6mm Mach IV. I built it after reading an article by Seyfired. Basically it's a 7mm Rem Mag case, necked down to 6mm with the shoulders moved slightly forward and blown out. Got some phenomenal bullet speeds out of that one. Went through the barrel quicker than I would have wished, but it was uninteresting experiment. Would likely be better today with faster twist barrels and slower powders. - dan
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I was going to have a 240 Gibbs built on a Sako action however, after reading more into the cartridge, shooters were stating that it can be persnickety............I bailed. My 240 Wby. is great with accuracy and velocity, thanks to the 27" Bob Jury barrel and RL#26. I have 4 Bob Jury barrels on my rifles, for some reason.;)
 
track said:
I was going to have a 240 Gibbs built on a Sako action however, after reading more into the cartridge, shooters were stating that it can be persnickety............I bailed. My 240 Wby. is great with accuracy and velocity, thanks to the 27" Bob Jury barrel and RL#26. I have 4 Bob Jury barrels on my rifles, for some reason.;)
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Fussiest part of the Gibbs is forming brass. High failure rate unless you start with new brass or anneal before forming. Once it's done once though, it's no different than reloading anything else. And 06 based brass is everywhere. It sings though. Mine has a Ron Smith gain twist barrel. - dan
 
todbartell said:
Ah, this thread reminds me of when I poked the hornets nest on CGN in 2019 with my new 6mm Creedmoor

243 Improved, the 6mm Creedmoor
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243 improved and shortened. Basically the 22-243 Middlestead case. Push the shoulders back and change their angle slightly. Nothing wrong with the idea, it works. Really the only thing particularly new was combining that with a fast twist and offering it in a factory rifle. And Hornady pimping the bejesus out of it, of course. - dan
 
dan belisle said:
243 improved and shortened. Basically the 22-243 Middlestead case. Push the shoulders back and change their angle slightly. Nothing wrong with the idea, it works. Really the only thing particularly new was combining that with a fast twist and offering it in a factory rifle. And Hornady pimping the bejesus out of it, of course. - dan
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Like most things, 10% of the effort goes in to making the neat thing and 90% into convincing you that you need one.

I mean, I'd like one, but that's beside the point here :ROFLMAO:
 
I won't be parting with my 243 anytime soon! Almost on par with my 7x57 (in terms of muzzle energy) and just as effective. It handles 75 gr V-MAX to 100 gr Gameheads with equal precision out of my 1:10 CZ barrel. There's not much it can't do up to deer size game (it's not a bear cartridge). If I need more horsepower, I have other rifles to grab! There's no such thing as a do-it-all cartridge--they all have cons to balance the pros. Just don't go hunting dangerous game with a poodle shooter.
 
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The 6CM is somewhat redundant, just like the 6.5 and the 30 T-C, but it's still a decent cartridge design. I plan to build one for myself, just because I wanted something more than a 6 BR but a little less than the 243. Prior to now, my first choice was always the 6mm Rem, which I liked better than the 243.
 
Leeper said:
The 6CM is somewhat redundant, just like the 6.5 and the 30 T-C, but it's still a decent cartridge design. I plan to build one for myself, just because I wanted something more than a 6 BR but a little less than the 243. Prior to now, my first choice was always the 6mm Rem, which I liked better than the 243.
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6mm GT seems like a better fit for that role than the Creed
 
A lot of the new cartridges are just fast twist, match barrel version of older cartridges. If I was buying a rifle, without owning the old cartridge already, I would consider one.

Initially cases and high bc bullets are hard to find. Factory ammo can be hard to get, and spendy. For a target or prs shooter, still worth it. I'm just a guy that tinkers, and hunts. So even the high bc has little value in practical hunting situations.
 
The reality is that gun manufacturers must sell a critical mass of rifles chambered for those new fast twist, high BC cartridges or they just end up obsolete or 'boutique' in 10-15 years time. That's why 30-06, 7mm RM, 300 WM, 308, 270, 243, 45-70, 30-30, 223, 222, 22LR, etc., etc. will ALWAYS be manufactured, along with 303, 8x57, 7x57, 6.5x55 and a long line of other classic military cartridges and sanctioned target cartridges--there's simply a sh!,t ton of reliable, well-made hunting rifles, target rifles and military / sporterized Mausers and Enfields, etc. in private hands. The only newish cartridges that appear (to me) as 'here to stay' are 6.5 CM, 6.5 PRC and maybe 7mm PRC. I wouldn't bet the ranch on any of the others in 10 year's time. The market is saturated with good rifles of all types and most average people don't bother to let them go if they work well enough for their intended purpose.

This post will probably spurn on lists of 'here to stay' cartridges, as I'm sure there are a few others I don't know about or care about. lol
 
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Here to tell you that a fast twist 243 shoots long bullets very well. I run 112 grain match bullets in my 8 twist 243 with great results.

I’m sure that the 6 creedmoor is a great cartridge. After all the cartridge itself is very similar to the 243. The big change was the barrel twists.
 
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