.243 Win. with Small Rifle Primer Brass - Anyone Tried This?

[Potashminer]

Have you heard of small rifle primer, large flash hole on a case that normally takes a LRP?

I'm just thinking that flash hole variation on 223/556 when its ALL small rifle primer might be muddying the waters? (that is to say I'm not sure 223/556 brass differences are going to help determine if there is a correlation between flash hole size and primer size for 243win, 308Palma, etc)

Re: your question that I bolded - no, I am not aware of any, but that does not mean they do not exist - others might know. About only cartridge here for Small Rifle Primer is the .223 Rem / 5.56 NATO - large flash holes - and all the others I think use Large Rifle Primers, and I do not have any of those with small flash holes - but maybe there are cartridges that some brands of brass is Large Rifle Primer and large flash hole; and other brands that use Small Rifle Primer and large flash hole - but I do not have any.

An acquaintance was over a few months ago and we loaded up some 22 Hornet - I am very sure that the brass that he brought along used Small Rifle Primers - but I did not pay any attention to the flash hole size - at that time I did not know there were different sizes.

 

[maynard]

I don't want to start slamming Peterson brass as I have never used it, same goes for small primer Lapua brass. However, a few year back the Canadian Palma Team captain demanded that all team members bring 200 pieces of fully prepped Lapua small primer brass to the Palma Match. This ammo was to be loaded for the team match. The Brits decided to bring Berdan primed brass and sell it for scarp at the end if the match to avoild shipping cost of bringing it back home. When the dust settled at the end of the Palma match the Brits came out on top, Canada placed 5th. I am thinking the primer has vey little to do with how well your rifle will shoot.

I should also note that a lot of F/TR shooters like small primer brass if they are pushing heavier bullets as fast as they can with a .308. More meat around the primer seems to make the primer pockets last longer.

I have also heard the Lapua will no longer be making small primer brass in .308. So if you are drinking the Kool-aid on small primer Laupa brass you have better buy all you can now.

 

[South Pender]

I don't want to start slamming Peterson brass as I have never used it, same goes for small primer Lapua brass. However, a few year back the Canadian Palma Team captain demanded that all team members bring 200 pieces of fully prepped Lapua small primer brass to the Palma Match. This ammo was to be loaded for the team match. The Brits decided to bring Berdan primed brass and sell it for scarp at the end if the match to avoild shipping cost of bringing it back home. When the dust settled at the end of the Palma match the Brits came out on top, Canada placed 5th. I am thinking the primer has vey little to do with how well your rifle will shoot.

I should also note that a lot of F/TR shooters like small primer brass if they are pushing heavier bullets as fast as they can with a .308. More meat around the primer seems to make the primer pockets last longer.

I have also heard the Lapua will no longer be making small primer brass in .308. So if you are drinking the Kool-aid on small primer Laupa brass you have better buy all you can now.

A couple of questions, Maynard. First, since the Brits won the match, and the Canadians came 5th, and they used different primers, I'm a little confused why you conclude from this that "the primer has very little to do with how well your rifle will shoot." Perhaps you meant that the fact that the two teams decided to use very different primers indicates that they don't place much weight on primers.

Second, your "drinking the Kool-Aid" comment would seem to suggest that you feel that small primer Lapua brass may be of questionable advantage regarding accuracy. Is that what you've found to be true?

 

[jamesharrison]

Re: The Brits decided to bring Berdan primed brass and sell it for scrap at the end of the match to avoid shipping cost of bringing it back home. When the dust settled at the end of the Palma match the Brits came out on top, Canada placed 5th.

Precision Shooting had a few articles about this as well, in its series on primers and their effect on Accuracy.

If you think the flash holes in European boxer-primed brass [eg. 6PPC] are small, have a look at the 2 piddly-sized holes in Berdan brass.

The author of the article, based on exhaustive testing with a 20# Bench rifle in a 100# return-to-battery rig, hypothesized that the superior performing berdan-primed loads occurred because the case held the anvil, so there was less chance / probability for error compared to the primer-mounted anvil, ie. one less thing to go wrong in primer manufacturing. He also posited that perhaps because the flame was directed into 2 small holes, rather than 1, it allowed more of the powder to ignite quicker.

I thought that it could be likened to 2 hose nozzles being simultaneously opened to produce twin long thin flames, similar to twin acetylene cutting torches, versus one torch having a thicker flame, although the volume in each case was the same.

They tested RWS berdan primers, R-P SRBR, CCI BR (2 different lots), Fed 210M/GM SR (3 different lots) & the old white box W-W SR.

Re: 22 Hornet - I am very sure that the brass that he brought along used Small Rifle Primers - but I did not pay any attention to the flash hole size.

I have on hand 8 brands of Hornet brass [R-P, W-W Super, WW, Hornady, PPU, Dominion, Imperial, Federal]. They all have large flash holes and, logically enough, small primer pockets. Don't think there'd be very much brass left if they used large rifle primers [Rim Diameter 0.350", large rifle primer diameter ~0.210", leaving but 0.070" around the primer]. I even have a .22 W.C.F. case [the fore-runner to the Hornet] that uses a very small primer, much smaller than the current small rifle primer.

 

[maynard]

A couple of questions, Maynard. First, since the Brits won the match, and the Canadians came 5th, and they used different primers, I'm a little confused why you conclude from this that "the primer has very little to do with how well your rifle will shoot." Perhaps you meant that the fact that the two teams decided to use very different primers indicates that they don't place much weight on primers.

Second, your "drinking the Kool-Aid" comment would seem to suggest that you feel that small primer Lapua brass may be of questionable advantage regarding accuracy. Is that what you've found to be true?

I do not believe that there is an advantage between the large primer and the small. There are many things in reloading that people put too much attention to that would be hard to prove any advantage. You can spent all kinds of time at your loading bench and that perfect round will go into the 3 ring if the miss a wind call.

 

[shockman]

I do not believe that there is an advantage between the large primer and the small. There are many things in reloading that people put too much attention to that would be hard to prove any advantage. You can spent all kinds of time at your loading bench and that perfect round will go into the 3 ring if the miss a wind call.

What he said!!
I use SRP lapua brass in my F-TR rifle and always figured the only reason was the extra strength around head would allow more than one firing pushing 200gn bullets as fast as 2700fps. I spend enough time and money developing loads that I never considered primer size to affect accuracy. Doesn't mean I have not had a healthy dose of Kool-aid lol. I do have hundreds of pcs of old LRP Lapua brass that has been necked down to .260 maybe one day I will expand some back up to 308 and give it a try ? I will have to be bored however as I have trouble imagining improving on a consistent 1/2 moa at 500m

 

[Longstud]

I have used both LRP and SRP in both my PGW 308 and my custom 6.5 creedmoor. My PGW was very accurate with the SRP Lapua brass, but very accurate with the same in LRP brass. Ditto on the 6.5 but as mentioned the cold weather affected the SRP in a negative manner. Ive read the FTR guys liking the SRP for the extra brass in the web and being able to run much higher pressure with the heavies and better brass life. I never run hot loads and just basically load for accuracy and that dictates where the loads stop. In my mind if I need more power cuz the velocity is not enough, I just pick a bigger gun. The decapping pin getting stuck in the flash hole is also a FKin PIA. So be prepared with the proper decap pin. I have switched to all LRP unless the powder charge is under 36.5grains or the weather is warm. This is just my experience