.243 Winchester: What's your take?

Boomer said:
OK, I'll play. If the deer is shot in a heavy woods situation, where the hunter has only a momentary view of the back end of the departing deer, the .416 bullet penetrates full length through the heart and exits in front of the shoulder, while the .243 bullets stays in the rump. I'll bet the majority of deer shot in thick woods are killed while attempting to get somewhere else.
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No Boomer, I didn't ask what was the difference in deer shot in the ass. :)
 
I know, but the point is that the .243's chances of producing clean kills on big game with a single raking rear or quartering shot comes into question while most modern cartridges from 6.5 on up handles it in a reasonable fashion provided a proper bullet is chosen. For that reason the .243 is better described as the expert's big game rifle rather than as a general purpose big game rifle for the novice simply because it doesn't kick.
 
Now we're comparing people's attitude to shot placement and respect for big game. That's got less to do with calibre choice.
I learned to stalk with a mean old Scotsman who complained if I hit the far leg/shoulder of a deer on the exit from a broadside shot. 'Raking angles" and "rump" are not words I would associate with good shot placement.
I will admit that heavier bullets in cals bigger than 6 mm will penetrate better and allow for shots to be taken that I would'nt take with the .243.
My own preference is for minimal bruising and meat damage, but that's just me. If someone feels more confident having more mass in a bullet than 6mm/100grain, I can understand that but I know the .243 will do the job.
If you want to shoot at deer running, or running away, throught thick brush, and you don't want to let a deer walk away because you did'nt have "the shot", then don't blame the .243 (or .30-30, or...)
I think too many people expect to go out and find a shootable deer and be able to shoot it just because they can see it. Then they expect it to fall over to the shot. Every shot is different, regardless of calibre.
 
Back to basics here.

Chambering doesn't make this an ethical shot.

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As for this one.Whatever is the legal size(chambering) to take big game in your area.

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Think that we are forgetting what they taught us in hunter safety about waiting for the right time to shoot, and passing on the animal if it won't be a clean unobstructed shot.If you can't let an animal go on a questionable or very poor shot, stay at home.

Staying on topic.The .243 will work for the second picture just fine. As for the first picture, IMO I don't care how big of a chambering you have, the shot should not be taken due to the fact you are using something with 100 grains of powder behind a 500 grain projectile.





Boomer said:
OK, I'll play. If the deer is shot in a heavy woods situation, where the hunter has only a momentary view of the back end of the departing deer, the .416 bullet penetrates full length through the heart and exits in front of the shoulder, while the .243 bullets stays in the rump. I'll bet the majority of deer shot in thick woods are killed while attempting to get somewhere else.
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migrant hunter said:
........... My own preference is for minimal bruising and meat damage, but that's just me. If someone feels more confident having more mass in a bullet than 6mm/100grain, I can understand that but I know the .243 will do the job........
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It has been my experience over the past 40+ years that impact velocity, rather than bullet weight, is what causes bruising and meat damage.

A 100 gr factory 243 at close range ruins a lot of meat. So does a 270 gr at 3000 fps from a 375 Weatherby.

Ted
 
Here, where the roe deer are about the size of an Alberta jackrabbit, I sometimes wish I had my 243 but when the pigs come out I'm glad of the Blaser 30R which speaks with the required authority. The groups with whom I hunt do not like badly shot game and rightly so. Shot placement on the small deer with the 30R has come to take on a different meaning, it is not "if I hit it do I have enough bullet/cartridge/energy/velocity to bring it down" but rather can I put the bullet in a place which will be effective and not destroy value of the game at the table. IMO quartering shots on roe deer are not an option with any caliber - if it can't be done cleanly, don't do it or either the front or the back half or both will be ruined. One of the groups fines its members and guests for badly shot game, another insists the shooter buy the game at the going price for a properly harvested animal.
I have shot enough Alberta deer with 243 to know that I can do it very effectively, as I can with a 7mmRM, 308, 3006, 358 and, last but by no means least, a 303. Hunter's have the choice to do it right.
 
"It has been my experience over the past 40+ years that impact velocity, rather than bullet weight, is what causes bruising and meat damage."
The problem with velocity is that you don't know how far you're going to have to shoot. Same with tough bullets and impact velocity.
What will be perfect at 300 yards will be way too fast at 50, and vice versa.
One of the hardest recoveries I ever had was a roe doe shot at 50 yards with a .308 Coreloct bullet. It just pencilled right through both lungs and she ran a long way. The same shot on a Red Deer would have expanded the bullet more.
Lack of mass in the lighter(under 90 grains) .243 bullets, coupled with the extra velocity, give the .243 an undeserved bad reputation.
 
Boomer said:
I know, but the point is that the .243's chances of producing clean kills on big game with a single raking rear or quartering shot comes into question while most modern cartridges from 6.5 on up handles it in a reasonable fashion provided a proper bullet is chosen. For that reason the .243 is better described as the expert's big game rifle rather than as a general purpose big game rifle for the novice simply because it doesn't kick.
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Hunter's ethics comes into effect when you start shooting up the rear end of an animal period. Hell I'm no expert but I can sure tell you I don't go shooting game in the rear when I'm carrying big iron, I let them walk, that's called hunting to me.
And as far as the 243, I think it's a very under-rated rifle with the ability to harvest big animals not just deer.
 
pharaoh2 said:
Hmmm, I see. What's the difference between a deer shot in the heart with a 6mm bullet and one shot in the heart with a .416 bullet?
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Nothing,...... it will expire and become a fatality, thats if deer keep these kinds of records.
Reliably getting the meat cutter through to the vitals at the possibly one opputune time I get each year is what I like to carry, and under most acceptable angles.
.243Win on large Deer family is an expert, jagermister Rifle. Not for general use by average hunter/marksman.
I carried the .243 for awhile in a rifle i bought for my wife in 1983. Traded it of in 86, zero deer killed with it.
They said my 7mmRem Mag was overkill so i got the '06, they said it was over kill so i got the .260. Some said who needs that waste of powder and recoil, so I bought a .243. I see many tooting the .223 for deer so i'll leave it at the .243 mark, less i end up some morning on a three line wide(200yds wide), transmission line, with an iron sighted single shot cooey in my hand using .22Shorts, and a big brusier standing 325 yards away. You see where this can alway lead, Less is never more. Remember just as in Drag Racing ,theres no substitute for cubic inches.
You know guys,...... I have to read the "Most Dangerous Game " in High School maybe like you did, and getting off on hunting down another armed man(or in this case large Deer family animal) by following same in 1 hour with, "A pistol of the smallest caliber, and shortest range" makes for a great story, but for the average hunters I meet, I'll recommend a .308 Win and leave it at that.
Guess when I see these thread's, I need to do this:HR:
to my head against the keyboard and pass it up.

Oh PS,.......... I viewed my friends home movie of a woodland caribou hunt, shot of himself, brother and father in NFLD during the mid 80s.
I pointed out to him on the clip where his dad hit a 350pound (guess) stag straight up the leg mid line or 2 inches above @ around 150yds with a scoped .243 is brother used with great success on the seal harvest..
I could see the bullet strike, and then see the steam exiting the other side in that cool morning air from the 100Gr IvI Saber tip. None is I recall to penetrate like FMJ's. It showed no sign of being hit ,turned and ran off. They chastised the old man for his old eyes, made a quick survey and claimed a clean miss. This animal most likely died minutes after hearing their truck drive away maybe 50yds into cover.
Had it been a .270 or 7mmRem Mag ,I doubt if it made 15 steps, let alone make the treeline and beyond, proving to me what I might expect on these size Deer size family animals. The 243 will mostly always kill. But will we always retrieve?

They didnt accept it was hit and spend the rest of their day searching, probaly like many who could not determine where it was standing and hard to find hair in a chopping. If you are a jagermister, then you would accept you hit and not forfeit your quarry to the crows as easily.
Enough on this subject for sure!. Good luck to all with your .243 for Deer and up. I'd use one,.... but then maybe I am.... the Jagermeister!!:eek:
 
Yes, seriously.

Could I make the shot myself? Yes.

Would I take the shot ? No.

But that is just me.

Besides, I like when they are within 30 yards and I can hear every foot step.;)




tactical870 said:
Seriously? Id happily take that shot with my 6mm (or .270 or 338 for that matter). It's a nice set up for a head shot.... Although it's a real waste of a nice head mount....
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canadaman30 said:
Hunter's ethics comes into effect when you start shooting up the rear end of an animal period. Hell I'm no expert but I can sure tell you I don't go shooting game in the rear when I'm carrying big iron, I let them walk, that's called hunting to me.
And as far as the 243, I think it's a very under-rated rifle with the ability to harvest big animals not just deer.
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An ethical shot is one that has a reasonable expectation of killing the animal with a minimum of suffering. This is a combination of the shot angle offered, the range, the cartridge and bullet in question, and the hunter's "on demand" marksmanship ability. When you take the shot, the hunting part has already been accomplished, so its not a hunting problem, rather its a marksmanship problem, followed by a terminal ballistics problem.

The question that begs to be asked is, "Would you take a going away follow-up shot if your broadside shot hit too far back and your gut shot deer was headed for the next area code, or do you wait until you again have a broadside shot?" If the back up shot is an ethical one, then the on the length shot from the rear is as well, provided you bullet has the potential to penetrate 3 or 4 feet. There's more to hit on the length than there is broadside, so in that respect, the on the length shot is more ethical. People get funny ideas when it comes to ethics.
 
i like my 243 , i use it mostly for deer , but have decided to sell my 3006 , as it sits in the safe these days ,,and just use the 243 ,, i will use it on a moose if the rite shot is there , great caliber with any 100 gr hornady bullet, i have taken a lot of deer ,big mulies as well;; wade
 
RememberTheSomme said:
Had it been a .270 or 7mmRem Mag ,I doubt if it made 15 steps, let alone make the treeline and beyond, proving to me what I might expect on these size Deer size family animals. The 243 will mostly always kill. But will we always retrieve?
!!:eek:
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There is no doubt a larger caliber has the potential to create a larger wound channel, but that is no guarantee the animal will go down quickly!

Back a few years ago I shot a white-tail fawn with a 300 win mag broadside through the lungs, the exit hole was large enough that I could put my fist in it without touching anything! That little fawn went 80-100yds! If you don't hit the nervous system or breakdown the skeletal network they can and will travel until blood loss lowers the blood pressure enough that they expire.

If anyone shoots at an animal they had better spend a lot of time looking for it no matter what caliber they are using!
 
shortaction said:
There is no doubt a larger caliber has the potential to create a larger wound channel, but that is no guarantee the animal will go down quickly!

Back a few years ago I shot a white-tail fawn with a 300 win mag broadside through the lungs, the exit hole was large enough that I could put my fist in it without touching anything! That little fawn went 80-100yds! If you don't hit the nervous system or breakdown the skeletal network they can and will travel until blood loss lowers the blood pressure enough that they expire.

If anyone shoots at an animal they had better spend a lot of time looking for it no matter what caliber they are using!
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I agree on the possible running with the heavier cartridge, a co-worker who had his winchester 100 sent off to coburg on the firing pin recall, told me he had an average doe run 75 yards through a christmas tree lot after being hit with my 7mmMag I leant him for the season. This was the exception I feel and not the rule.
Maybe I have been lucky in downing game close to where they were standing. Maybe the shots not being over 143 yds, longest shot and heaviest buck 1983, flattened by the Rem Mag and I mean flattened ,... make this possible. Dead is dead if vitals are put out of action, I just like using extra to try and anchor where or close to it stands. Is it wrong to think this way? What is lost if my ammo is 7 dollars more for 20 then yours? Is it a game to try to obtain the most game with the less cartridge. The cycle comes back around to what are we expecting to achieve on impact. What expectations do you have of your cartridge in all places you wil find yourself throughout the season. Whacking a deer with a 44-40, waiting for 10 minutes, moving up to confirm hit, smoking another cigarette or chew of tobacco, and then proceeding on phase two of the hunt, tracking, finding and claiming your game. This was acceptable many years ago and animals were probaly 95% retrieved. Different era, these cartridges were what it was, not what they should be or could be.
The tracking down was as much a part as the marksmanship required to give you something to track.

I've had really good results wih .308Win. It gives one the feeling of it will do the job everytime. It's dosen't feel like wasted energy, it feels right on the money.
A friend who has been retired and still hunts like a youngman @ 72 years, started out on his fathers 1895 .30-06 in the mid 50s. Progressed to .30-30 . Felt he was losing Deer. Moved to a 99 in .250 Savage. Loved it but again he said there was deer he shot solidly and was discouraged by the time to find or not to find. Then in the mid sixties it all came togeher for him. He got a 99f in .308 and never took the .250 out again. He said, and this was in the 90s, i shot maybe 20 -25 deer with that .308, and knock on wood, never lost one. I have never had a whitetail stand back up for seconds with the .308Win.
I heeded his words , he was a man of intelligence, and one who learned from experiences, and passed them on in a structured manner, to whomever would listen. The .243 is somewhat in my mind, like his .250 savage, as he pointed out to me when I tooted the .243 in my Rem7400 nearly 30 years ago.
With these thoughts, mine own experiences and this valued friends experiences, that have threefolded mine , I conclude this broadcast day.:canadaFlag:
 
I agree on the tracking, a lost art for most people. There is an expectation nowadays for deer to drop to the shot and it is deemed a failure if the hunter has to go look for his deer. I used to hunt with a guy who used a .30-06 and lost more deer than I can remember. He just kept hitting them badly and he kept my dog busy for many a long night. I don't blame the .30-06 for his lack of ability. It does'nt bother me if a deer runs a bit, and a hunter should be able to call his shot. We should know how we hit a deer and be able to evaluate a shot immediately after.
You don't win fights in the ring, you win them in the gym. You get good on the range, shooting from feild positions.
 
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