257 Roberts AI
- Thread starter Muskydawg
- Start date
I don’t know fellas, I’m usually pretty hard headed once I get an idea in my head, but I think you’ve talked me out of this. Thanks for all the feedback. I don’t know what it is about the 30-06, but I just can’t get excited about it and it’s offspring. Maybe it’s just to mainstream for me? I’ll have to think his through some more. I do a lot of walking for white tails, and i’d like to have some kind of exciting, unique, light deer rifle. I’ll have to do some more research.
Stay tuned…
Stay tuned…
30-06 is a very useful cartridge, but boring. 257 Bob, AI or not, isnt. There are very many options. Ive owned many Ackley cartridges (still have a few) had various other improved versions of cases. I put together a 338-06 for a friend last year (he tried mine and liked it a lot). Putting another 30 Gibbs together, just because. The unusual is entertaining simply because it is unusual. Different is its own reward. - dan
Thanks Dan, I think your right. Unusual is far more entertaining! I still have a vision of a 257AI with a stainless Tikka action, carbon fibre wrapped barrel and a carbon fibre stock. Kind of an old meets new kinda deal. I’m going to keep researching this and see if I can make it work.
Mdawg, if you really have your heart set on a 257AI, please don't let us talk you out of it. That's all part of the fun and learning curve when you're a firearms enthusiast.
I can't remember how many one off rifles I've built, including 8x57 Gibbs and a very similar 8x63 Norwegian knock off and the list goes on and on.
If you can afford it and want to add to your learning curve, fun, GO FOR IT.
One thing about purchasing your own reamer set, IF YOU REALLY WANT SOMETHING DIFFERENT, you can make a few changes to such things as shoulder angles, body tapers and neck lengths to get more powder capacity or just for uniqueness.
A friend of mine offered me a reamer that used a 30-06 case for the parent case but had a one degree taper on the side walls and a 30 degree shoulder that would leave an appx .300 neck length. This reamer didn't have a neck or throat section cut into it, but was set up in such a manner that appropriate bore guides could be attached and a Neck/throat reamer could be used after the body of the chamber was cut to make up just about any bullet diameter wildcat you could want.
I built two rifles with that reamer.
One on a Ruger No1, which was dubbed the 338 Jordan, after my friend's oldest son. I had to purchase the neck/throat reamer, which I still have.
The result was a rimless/beltless cartridge that had capacities very close but well under those of the 338 Win Mag.
With bullets up to 225 grains, I could easily get velocities in the middle of range of the Win Mag, but the Win Mag could easily exceed those velocities.
Eventually, I just couldn't handle the recoil from that combination and cut down the chamber area to create a 308-338, which is pretty close to a 338 Federal but with a bit more velocity, depending on barrel length.
I ended up cutting the barrel muzzle back to 20 inches OAL because I wanted to make up a light/handy/easy to carry/hard hitting rifle for use from a tree stand where shots were seldom over 50 yards and mostly well under that.
This rifle was built up on a previously butchered 98 receiver and placed into a composite stock. It's very accurate, right out past 200yds and does everything I wanted it to do and then some. It hits like a hammer right out to 200 yds with the 225 grain, flat base SP bullets on a charge of Win748 over CCI250 primers. The Magnetospeed indicates that those bullets are achieving just over 2300fps. The 200 grain bullets are appx 2400fps.
I had a lot of fun making up that rifle and working out loads for it. I still have it. I still like it, even though I'm not much for setting up tree stands any longer.
The point of these wildcat builds is to have fun with them and scratch and itch.
Sometimes they're a flop. That's why I aways profile my barrels with a very long "shank section" before starting the taper. This also puts more weight between my hands, which seems to stabilize my offhand aiming and balances the rifle better for carrying, when not using a sling. the extra long shank allows you to salvage the barrel, for other builds, if you lose interest or aren't happy with the first effort.
Sadly, unless you can do a lot or all of the work yourself, these builds can get very expensive.
If you decide to go for your very own, special version of the 257 IMPROVED, then you would really have something unique and different.
Don't ever expect to recoup those costs though. One person's dream is another person's nightmare.
I can't remember how many one off rifles I've built, including 8x57 Gibbs and a very similar 8x63 Norwegian knock off and the list goes on and on.
If you can afford it and want to add to your learning curve, fun, GO FOR IT.
One thing about purchasing your own reamer set, IF YOU REALLY WANT SOMETHING DIFFERENT, you can make a few changes to such things as shoulder angles, body tapers and neck lengths to get more powder capacity or just for uniqueness.
A friend of mine offered me a reamer that used a 30-06 case for the parent case but had a one degree taper on the side walls and a 30 degree shoulder that would leave an appx .300 neck length. This reamer didn't have a neck or throat section cut into it, but was set up in such a manner that appropriate bore guides could be attached and a Neck/throat reamer could be used after the body of the chamber was cut to make up just about any bullet diameter wildcat you could want.
I built two rifles with that reamer.
One on a Ruger No1, which was dubbed the 338 Jordan, after my friend's oldest son. I had to purchase the neck/throat reamer, which I still have.
The result was a rimless/beltless cartridge that had capacities very close but well under those of the 338 Win Mag.
With bullets up to 225 grains, I could easily get velocities in the middle of range of the Win Mag, but the Win Mag could easily exceed those velocities.
Eventually, I just couldn't handle the recoil from that combination and cut down the chamber area to create a 308-338, which is pretty close to a 338 Federal but with a bit more velocity, depending on barrel length.
I ended up cutting the barrel muzzle back to 20 inches OAL because I wanted to make up a light/handy/easy to carry/hard hitting rifle for use from a tree stand where shots were seldom over 50 yards and mostly well under that.
This rifle was built up on a previously butchered 98 receiver and placed into a composite stock. It's very accurate, right out past 200yds and does everything I wanted it to do and then some. It hits like a hammer right out to 200 yds with the 225 grain, flat base SP bullets on a charge of Win748 over CCI250 primers. The Magnetospeed indicates that those bullets are achieving just over 2300fps. The 200 grain bullets are appx 2400fps.
I had a lot of fun making up that rifle and working out loads for it. I still have it. I still like it, even though I'm not much for setting up tree stands any longer.
The point of these wildcat builds is to have fun with them and scratch and itch.
Sometimes they're a flop. That's why I aways profile my barrels with a very long "shank section" before starting the taper. This also puts more weight between my hands, which seems to stabilize my offhand aiming and balances the rifle better for carrying, when not using a sling. the extra long shank allows you to salvage the barrel, for other builds, if you lose interest or aren't happy with the first effort.
Sadly, unless you can do a lot or all of the work yourself, these builds can get very expensive.
If you decide to go for your very own, special version of the 257 IMPROVED, then you would really have something unique and different.
Don't ever expect to recoup those costs though. One person's dream is another person's nightmare.
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Agree. The fun is in the journey. It's rare we come up with a better mousetrap. And sometimes when you've been at it long enough you'll see the latest whiz bang super cartridge and realize it is a hair's different from one you've already played with. Still fun yhough. - dan
Thanks for the thoughtful response bearhunter. Not only is it interesting to hear about custom builds, but it is also inspiring me to figure it out. I had no idea that there was a whole other side to firearms. I always assumed that wildcat builds were still somehow involved through the major manufacturers. I’ve always enjoyed learning new things, and I’m enjoying just learning about all of this. Wether this build happens or not. I have a busy job and this is a great escape.
Now… back to the research…
Now… back to the research…
I agree ..... I get the same results with IMR4831.
Several years ago, Bevan King built a 700 faux TI in the std 257R for me. I had in mind that down the road that rifle would get the "AI" chamber. I liked the rifle so much as is, I never did get it reamed and do not consider the AI a worthy venture considering all the extra costs and hassles.
If I needed a faster 25cal (I don't), I'd just buy a 25-06 or a 257W.
Furthermore ..... In our current supply conditions, I'd buy a good supply of brass, dies and bullets before venturing down the road with a new chambering.
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Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
If you are looking for a prefit in a 257 AI, pm or email me... no problem to supply
Jerry
Jerry
My first 250 Savage was built by Savage and chambered in their early bolt action Model 1920 and was stamped 250-3000
It had one of the worst triggers I've ever seen and used. It also had a 1-14 twist rate and worked best with 85-90 grain flat base bullets.
I have that same rifle. Also had a 110 chambered in 250 savage with a 1-10 twist. Built a 250 AI on a Rem 600 back in the 80's. That was a 10 teist as well if im remembering correctly. - dan
Your Model 20 Savage chambered in 250-3000 had a 1-10 twist???
I know of another fellow that has one with a 1-12 twist.
I wonder if it was possible to special order twist rates from Savage back then in these rifles, direct from the factory.
I know that other manufacturers of the period catered to such orders and Savage, being a major supplier could easily have done different runs with different twist rates.
Maybe mine was a special order???
I know of another fellow that has one with a 1-12 twist.
I wonder if it was possible to special order twist rates from Savage back then in these rifles, direct from the factory.
I know that other manufacturers of the period catered to such orders and Savage, being a major supplier could easily have done different runs with different twist rates.
Maybe mine was a special order???
No, I said my model 20 was the same as yours, including the twist. The 110 I had in 250 was a 10 twist. Not seen a 20 with a 12 twist, maybe the rod slipped when he was measuring it. Or maybe Savage made a few variations over the years. Theyre nice little rifles, with a few features that would be come more mainstream in later years. - dan
I like John Barnesness's take on custom rifles. It's a great and interesting hobby for people who can cheerfully take a high stack of hundreds, do a rough 1/2 deck cut on them to two piles then set one of them on fire. Do a wildcat and you might as well burn both stacks. What do you gain? In most cases SFA. There's nothing a .257 AI can do that a 25-06 or .257 Weatherby can't do better, except maybe fitting in an action that you probably wouldn't use anyway. Most wildcats are just a waste of time, everything worth doing has already been done. I still cling to my STWs, 7-300 Wins, 338 Edge and a couple 22-243s, 1 Middlested and one straight neckdown without neck turning though. Part of it is just nostalgia, part performance that wouldn't matter to most people. The SAAMI spec world has it covered with a lot less hastle.
On the otherhand, if you're having fun carry on. We all do it.
On the otherhand, if you're having fun carry on. We all do it.
I like John Barnesness's take on custom rifles. It's a great and interesting hobby for people who can cheerfully take a high stack of hundreds, do a rough 1/2 deck cut on them to two piles then set one of them on fire. Do a wildcat and you might as well burn both stacks. What do you gain? In most cases SFA. There's nothing a .257 AI can do that a 25-06 or .257 Weatherby can't do better, except maybe fitting in an action that you probably wouldn't use anyway. Most wildcats are just a waste of time, everything worth doing has already been done. I still cling to my STWs, 7-300 Wins, 338 Edge and a couple 22-243s, 1 Middlested and one straight neckdown without neck turning though. Part of it is just nostalgia, part performance that wouldn't matter to most people. The SAAMI spec world has it covered with a lot less hastle.
On the otherhand, if you're having fun carry on. We all do it.
Its about having something different. Occasionally people come up with something good, and if its good enough a factory will start producing it. Think 35 Whelen, 22-250, 25-06 STW, 260, etc. And some show up under a different name, 22-243 Middlested and 22 Creedmore for example. Its about the fun, not economics (which is a good thing). - dan
I like buying guys dream builds after they have started the second pile of money on fire. The best is when they took the best of everything approach; it's fun to get their highend stocks and custom actions for a fraction of what they paid. Half of the time they'll throw in their custom dies and formed brass as well.
