257 Weatherby for Moose

[bcsteve]

my opinion

I have a 25-06 I use it for deer, and its a hell of a deer gun.

Would it be enough for moose, I guess so with the right bullet and shot placement.

Is it what I use for moose.... hell no, I have better choices.

Exactly the way I feel with my .260 Rem, would it work on moose, sure but it's my deer rifle. I also have better choices for moose.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. When I go hunting, I choose a cartridge and bullet combo that will work even when everything goes bad not that will work only when everything is perfect.

 

[kman300]

I would like to know how many moose they have killed in the scandinavian countries with the 6.5x55 swede. They I would like to point out that the difference between .264 and .257 is 7 thousands of an inch. Moose are not suddenly bullet proof and lots were killed with cheap lead core bullets that lost half their weight within the first few inches of entering the moose.

I fail to see the logic that heavy bullets = better. How is a 175gr RN 7mm that loses half it's weight in the first few inches better than a 100gr tsx that retains almost all it's weight? Solid copper bullets do not blow up on a shoulder shot and fragment like lead core bullets do.

No, you shouldn't attempt a texas heart shot with a 257 but then again that isn't advisable on a moose anyways.

I shot a heavy whitetail buck facing me at 200 yards. The bullet went through his neck bones, through his spin and broke the far back rib and was found under the hide. If a measly 100gr tsx can make it through all that I really fail to see the problem with using it on moose.

 

[grit]

No one is saying it won't work under ideal circumstances, but it just seems to be the in thing now to take cartridges designed for 200lb deer and shoot animals weighing 7-10 times more.There are just better choices for game that heavy.As always pick your shots and it will work. I've taken quite a few yukon/alaska moose and been in on quite a few more and the mediums bores just seem to flatten them not just kill them.But we all have different experiences.

 

[kman300]

I would like to know what criteria you're using to determine that a 257 is a 200lbs deer cartridge? Is it ft/lbs?

Just for fun here are some numbers.


30-06 165gr @ 2750 fps
FPS ft/lbs
0 Infinity 2750 2771 64.82 0.000 0.0 NaN 849
25 0.2 -3 2691 2652 63.42 0.028 0.1 1 795
50 1.6 -12 2632 2538 62.04 0.056 0.2 2 745
75 2.6 -13 2574 2427 60.68 0.085 0.5 2 697
100 3.4 -13 2517 2321 59.33 0.114 0.9 3 651
125 3.8 -11 2461 2219 58.01 0.144 1.4 4 609
150 3.8 -10 2405 2120 56.70 0.175 2.0 5 568
175 3.4 -8 2351 2025 55.41 0.207 2.8 6 531
200 2.7 -5 2297 1933 54.14 0.239 3.6 7 495
225 1.6 -3 2244 1845 52.89 0.272 4.7 8 461
250 0.0 0 2191 1759 51.65 0.306 5.8 9 430
275 -2.0 3 2139 1677 50.43 0.340 7.1 10 400
300 -4.5 6 2088 1597 49.22 0.376 8.6 11 372
325 -7.5 9 2037 1521 48.03 0.412 10.2 12 345
350 -11.1 12 1988 1447 46.85 0.450 11.9 13 321
375 -15.1 15 1938 1377 45.69 0.488 13.9 14 297
400 -19.8 19 1890 1309 44.55 0.527 16.0 15 276
425 -25.1 23 1842 1244 43.43 0.567 18.2 16 255
450 -31.0 26 1796 1181 42.33 0.609 20.7 18 236
475 -37.5 30 1750 1122 41.25 0.651 23.3 19 219
500 -44.8 34 1705 1065 40.19 0.694 26.2 20 202


I dont think anyone here would say that the 30-06 with a 165gr won't kill moose even under less than "ideal" conditions.

7mm Rem Mag 160gr @ 2850 fps
FPS ft/lbs
0 -1.5 2850 2886 65.14 0.000 0.0 NaN 889
25 0.1 -1 2791 2767 63.79 0.027 0.1 1 835
50 1.3 -10 2732 2652 62.45 0.054 0.2 2 783
75 2.3 -12 2674 2541 61.13 0.082 0.5 2 735
100 3.0 -12 2618 2434 59.83 0.110 0.8 3 689
125 3.4 -10 2561 2331 58.55 0.139 1.3 4 645
150 3.4 -9 2506 2231 57.28 0.168 1.9 5 604
175 3.1 -7 2451 2135 56.03 0.199 2.6 6 566
200 2.5 -5 2398 2042 54.80 0.230 3.4 6 529
225 1.4 -2 2344 1953 53.59 0.261 4.3 7 495
250 0.0 0 2292 1866 52.39 0.294 5.4 8 462
275 -1.9 3 2240 1783 51.21 0.327 6.6 9 432
300 -4.1 5 2189 1703 50.04 0.361 7.9 10 403
325 -6.9 8 2139 1625 48.88 0.395 9.4 11 376
350 -10.1 11 2089 1550 47.74 0.431 11.0 12 350
375 -13.8 14 2039 1477 46.61 0.467 12.8 13 326
400 -18.0 17 1991 1408 45.50 0.505 14.7 14 303
425 -22.8 21 1943 1341 44.40 0.543 16.8 15 282
450 -28.2 24 1895 1276 43.32 0.582 19.0 16 261
475 -34.2 27 1849 1215 42.26 0.622 21.4 17 243
500 -40.8 31 1803 1155 41.22 0.663 24.0 18 225


Again, the 7mm RM is a very popular cartridge and has killed tons of moose under less than "ideal" conditions.

257 Weatherby 100gr tsx @ 3650 fps

FPS ft/lbs
0 -1.5 3650 2958 52.14 0.000 0.0 NaN 729
25 -0.5 7 3568 2826 50.97 0.021 0.0 1 681
50 0.4 -3 3487 2699 49.81 0.042 0.2 1 636
75 1.0 -5 3407 2578 48.68 0.064 0.4 2 593
100 1.5 -6 3329 2461 47.56 0.086 0.7 3 554
125 1.8 -6 3253 2349 46.47 0.109 1.1 3 516
150 1.9 -5 3178 2242 45.39 0.132 1.6 4 481
175 1.8 -4 3104 2139 44.34 0.156 2.2 5 448
200 1.4 -3 3031 2039 43.30 0.181 2.9 5 418
225 0.8 -1 2959 1944 42.27 0.206 3.6 6 389
250 0.0 0 2889 1853 41.27 0.231 4.5 7 362
275 -1.1 2 2819 1765 40.27 0.258 5.6 8 336
300 -2.5 3 2751 1680 39.30 0.285 6.7 9 312
325 -4.1 5 2684 1599 38.34 0.312 7.9 9 290
350 -6.1 7 2618 1521 37.39 0.341 9.3 10 269
375 -8.4 9 2552 1447 36.46 0.370 10.8 11 249
400 -11.0 10 2488 1375 35.55 0.399 12.4 12 231
425 -14.0 13 2425 1306 34.65 0.430 14.2 13 214
450 -17.3 15 2363 1240 33.76 0.461 16.1 14 198
475 -21.0 17 2302 1177 32.89 0.493 18.1 15 183
500 -25.2 19 2242 1116 32.03 0.526 20.3 16 169

At the muzzle the ft/lbs are as follows
257 wby 2958ft/lbs
7mm RM 2886ft/lbs
30-06 2771ft/lbs

@200 yards
257 wby 2039ft/lbs
7mm RM 2042ft/lbs
30-06 1933ft/lbs

If we agree that 1500ft/lbs is needed to cleanly kill elk/moose then all 3 cartridges can do that out to 350 yards. Impact velocity is however, rather different.

@350 yards impact fps are as follows
257 wby 2618fps
7mm RM 2089fps
30-06 1988fps


Will a moose know the difference of a .5, .55 or .6 diameter bullet going though it? Don't think so. Will an impact of 2600fps be more violent than one at 2000fps? In my experience, yes.

So again, please explain to me how a 257 wby is a 200lbs deer rifle and the other two are elk/moose guns. If the recent trend in ultra mags et. al. is any indication 3000ft/lbs ME isn't enough anyways to kill moose. We should all be using guns with 4000ft/lbs ME minimum, which includes the big 338's and the new hot 375 ruger. The 375 H&H is now also retired because the 375 ruger is much better.

 

[bigbull]

I would like to know what criteria you're using to determine that a 257 is a 200lbs deer cartridge? Is it ft/lbs?

Will a moose know the difference of a .5, .55 or .6 diameter bullet going though it? Don't think so. Will an impact of 2600fps be more violent than one at 2000fps? In my experience, yes.

So again, please explain to me how a 257 wby is a 200lbs deer rifle and the other two are elk/moose guns. If the recent trend in ultra mags et. al. is any indication 3000ft/lbs ME isn't enough anyways to kill moose. We should all be using guns with 4000ft/lbs ME minimum, which includes the big 338's and the new hot 375 ruger. The 375 H&H is now also retired because the 375 ruger is much better.

Very interesting blurp.

By your criteria my 243 Ackley is just as good as your 257 Wby any time of the day! If I adjust my distances slightly so my velocities stay up there. What moose would know the difference between a 243 or 257 bullet thats only .014", they are both 100 grains one starts out at 3300 fps and 3600...big deal! It doesn't make the 243 a moose caliber and never will, will it kill a moose, of coarse, would I use it, no thanks I have better choices. By the same token my 250 Ackley is not too far behind your 257 Wby, I might loose 100 yds in effective range but it will do everything your Wby will do if I respect the range, is it a moose caliber...I don't think so.
You try to make a point with your 257 Wby but there are alot of guys here with alot of trigger time in the field that will tell you otherwise, you are in the minority, hey to each his own, I just hope you never injure and loose an animal one day because it's not a good feeling.

 

[grit]

Comparing energy figures which are based on velosity squared mean nothing,does that mean the 30/378 which has more energy than the 375 H&H is equaly as good a cape buffalo cartridge?? I have had a few 257 wby's and like them,I would use one on moose if it's all I had , but there just are better tools for the job.The 257 wby and 25/06 were designed to be longer range deer cartridges... at least this is what the manufactures have stated

 

[kman300]

Very interesting blurp.

By your criteria my 243 Ackley is just as good as your 257 Wby any time of the day! If I adjust my distances slightly so my velocities stay up there. What moose would know the difference between a 243 or 257 bullet thats only .014", they are both 100 grains one starts out at 3300 fps and 3600...big deal! It doesn't make the 243 a moose caliber and never will, will it kill a moose, of coarse, would I use it, no thanks I have better choices. By the same token my 250 Ackley is not too far behind your 257 Wby, I might loose 100 yds in effective range but it will do everything your Wby will do if I respect the range, is it a moose caliber...I don't think so.
You try to make a point with your 257 Wby but there are alot of guys here with alot of trigger time in the field that will tell you otherwise, you are in the minority, hey to each his own, I just hope you never injure and loose an animal one day because it's not a good feeling.

I never mentioned the .243. I never set a criteria for what constitutes a moose caliber. I am asking by what criteria the .257 isn't one. Velocity alone means nothing. I was comparing impact velocity at the same ft/lbs.

Please feel free to define the criteria for a moose caliber. I'm all ears.

Being in the minority doesn't mean one is wrong, merely that the rest havn't figured something out yet. I am certain I am also in the minority for using tsx bullets over traditional lead core bullets. The old farts I hunt with think core lokt are the cats meow and plastic tips on all copper bullets are some new gimick. I was actually told they are FMJ's and can't be used for hunting. Wounding an animal is far more likely to happen with a lead core bullet than with an all copper bullet and I'd be curious to know how many animals have been wounded and lost because someone was shooting some super magnum with cheap nornady et al lead core bullets because nobody want's to pay $60 for ammo with premium bullets.

I realize that I am most likely also in the minority when I say that traditional thinking that dictated certain SD for certain game and heavy for caliber bullets is outdated and does not apply to premium bullets such as the tsx. People used to use heavy for caliber bullets (175gr for 7mm for example) because they knew full well that half or more of the bullet would dissintegrate prior to it reaching the vitals. Look at any recovered partition bullet which is a premium lead core bullet. The front is almost always gone and all that's left is the shank. Non premium lead core bullets fare even worse and the jacket often seperates completely from the cure. There are tons of tests out there that measure bullet weight retention comparing several popular brands. Look into that sometime. I do not need to use heavy bullets to make sure I get to the vitals. A tsx will get there and retain most if not all it's weight.

I have seen what tsx bullets can do. I have used them in 243 winchester, 257 wby, 260 remington, 7mm RM, 300 wby, 338 lapua (along with 300gr smk, which we all know is a paper target bullet only.) and 375 H&H. The 257 doesn't recoil hard, doesn't blow your ears off, shoots flat and hits hard. I honestly see no reason to pick up a different gun for the hunting I do.

I used to know this guy in when I was in the army and he was from NFLD. Great guy. He used to tell me stories about his moose hunting trips. He's shot, I don't even know how many moose with a crappy .303 and canadian tire ammo, whatever that is.

Hunt with whatever gun you like but if you're going to say that a gun isn't good enough for something I'd like to know why not and also what should be used instead.

Thanks for reading.

 

[captonion]

Comparing energy figures which are based on velosity squared mean nothing,does that mean the 30/378 which has more energy than the 375 H&H is equaly as good a cape buffalo cartridge??

Why not????

Besides ,Roy Weatherby took out cape buffalo with a single shot from a 257 WM.

 

[kman300]

Comparing energy figures which are based on velosity squared mean nothing,does that mean the 30/378 which has more energy than the 375 H&H is equaly as good a cape buffalo cartridge??

Moose are not dangerous game that can kill you. Those creatures have their own set of rules.

 

[p17]

More Alaska/Yukon moose have been killed with 30-30s and 303s then all the other cartriges put together. You don.t need a shoulder bruising magnum to knock them down.

 

[Kelly Timoffee]

Well since we are on the Infinity program buzz, I will now show to you that bullet choice means quite a bit, even more than chambering, especially for down range ballistics.

This is my hunting load, that to me is good for anything in this great country.

Unfortunately it is coming out of a puny 7mm-08.I use a quality bonded bullet with high BC value and modest velocities to retain accuracy.

Even after leaving the muzzle lower than the above 30-06 and 7mm Magnum load, the retained velocity and energy intersect. The numbers speak for themselves, all of these loads will work on moose even with huge cartridge differences.You can also put those bullets into larger chamberings to achieve greater energy but I feel it is not needed.

The 257 will work with no issues using a quality bullet.Keep the accuracy as a priority and you will be winning like Charlie Sheen.

Here are the stats:

Trajectory for Swift .284 dia. 150 gr. Scirocco BTS at 2750 Feet per Second
At an Elevation Angle of: 0 degrees
Ballistic Coefficients of: 0.515 0.515 0.515 0.515 0.515
Velocity Boundaries (Feet per Second) of: 2488 2488 2488 2488
Wind Direction is: 0.0 o'clock and a Wind Velocity of: 0.0 Miles per hour
Wind Components are (Miles per Hour): DownRange: 0.0 Cross Range: 0.0 Vertical: 0.0
The Firing Point speed of sound is: 1114.67 fps
The bullet does not drop below the speed within the max range specified.
Altitude: 1450 Feet with a Standard Atmospheric Model.
Temperature: 59 F
Data Printed in English Units
Range(Yards) Velocity(Ft/Sec) Energy(Ft/Lbs) Bullet Path(1 MoA) Bullet Path(inches) Wind Drift(1 MoA) Wind Drift(inches) Time of Flight(Seconds)
0 2750 2518.4 -1.5 0 0 0 0
100 2582.9 2221.6 1.86 1.8 0 0 0.1126
200 2421.8 1953.1 0 0 0 0 0.2325
300 2266.5 1710.6 -7.79 -2.5 0 0 0.3606
400 2116.8 1492.2 -22.36 -5.3 0 0 0.4975
500 1972.9 1296.2 -44.7 -8.5 0 0 0.6444
600 1835.1 1121.5 -75.98 -12.1 0 0 0.802
700 1704 967 -117.6 -16 0 0 0.9717
800 1580.5 831.9 -171.22 -20.4 0 0 1.1546
900 1465.4 715.2 -238.77 -25.3 0 0 1.3518
1000 1360.1 616 -322.54 -30.8 0 0 1.5644

 

[grit]

I consider the 7mm/08 a step up from the 257wby for larger game than deer.I don't recall anyone stating either of those 2 cartridges were puny, or wouldn't work for moose.we all have preferences and different hunting experiences.

 

[Kelly Timoffee]

Sry, didn't have a sarcasm icon available.

Just wanted to show that today's technology allows effective killing ability without huge powder loads and recoil.

I consider the 7mm/08 a step up from the 257wby for larger game than deer.I don't recall anyone stating either of those 2 cartridges were puny, or wouldn't work for moose.we all have preferences and different hunting experiences.

 

[bearkilr]

Here come the ballistics hunters.
The above figures mean sh*t. Those who have hunted enough know that there are a whole pile of calibers out there which kill better than their ballistics numbers would suggest, such as the 9.3x62,30-06,7x57,etc.,

 

[bearkilr]

I would like to know how many moose they have killed in the scandinavian countries with the 6.5x55 swede. They I would like to point out that the difference between .264 and .257 is 7 thousands of an inch. Moose are not suddenly bullet proof and lots were killed with cheap lead core bullets that lost half their weight within the first few inches of entering the moose.

I fail to see the logic that heavy bullets = better. How is a 175gr RN 7mm that loses half it's weight in the first few inches better than a 100gr tsx that retains almost all it's weight? Solid copper bullets do not blow up on a shoulder shot and fragment like lead core bullets do.

No, you shouldn't attempt a texas heart shot with a 257 but then again that isn't advisable on a moose anyways.

I shot a heavy whitetail buck facing me at 200 yards. The bullet went through his neck bones, through his spin and broke the far back rib and was found under the hide. If a measly 100gr tsx can make it through all that I really fail to see the problem with using it on moose.

Moose in Sweden are much smaller than NA moose, they use heavy bullets in the 6.5(160gr usually) and they hunt with dogs, shooting at close range. Your point is moot.

 

[bigbull]

I never mentioned the .243. I never set a criteria for what constitutes a moose caliber. I am asking by what criteria the .257 isn't one. Velocity alone means nothing. I was comparing impact velocity at the same ft/lbs.

Please feel free to define the criteria for a moose caliber. I'm all ears.

Being in the minority doesn't mean one is wrong, merely that the rest havn't figured something out yet. I am certain I am also in the minority for using tsx bullets over traditional lead core bullets. The old farts I hunt with think core lokt are the cats meow and plastic tips on all copper bullets are some new gimick. I was actually told they are FMJ's and can't be used for hunting. Wounding an animal is far more likely to happen with a lead core bullet than with an all copper bullet and I'd be curious to know how many animals have been wounded and lost because someone was shooting some super magnum with cheap nornady et al lead core bullets because nobody want's to pay $60 for ammo with premium bullets.

I realize that I am most likely also in the minority when I say that traditional thinking that dictated certain SD for certain game and heavy for caliber bullets is outdated and does not apply to premium bullets such as the tsx. People used to use heavy for caliber bullets (175gr for 7mm for example) because they knew full well that half or more of the bullet would dissintegrate prior to it reaching the vitals. Look at any recovered partition bullet which is a premium lead core bullet. The front is almost always gone and all that's left is the shank. Non premium lead core bullets fare even worse and the jacket often seperates completely from the cure. There are tons of tests out there that measure bullet weight retention comparing several popular brands. Look into that sometime. I do not need to use heavy bullets to make sure I get to the vitals. A tsx will get there and retain most if not all it's weight.

I have seen what tsx bullets can do. I have used them in 243 winchester, 257 wby, 260 remington, 7mm RM, 300 wby, 338 lapua (along with 300gr smk, which we all know is a paper target bullet only.) and 375 H&H. The 257 doesn't recoil hard, doesn't blow your ears off, shoots flat and hits hard. I honestly see no reason to pick up a different gun for the hunting I do.

I used to know this guy in when I was in the army and he was from NFLD. Great guy. He used to tell me stories about his moose hunting trips. He's shot, I don't even know how many moose with a crappy .303 and canadian tire ammo, whatever that is.

Hunt with whatever gun you like but if you're going to say that a gun isn't good enough for something I'd like to know why not and also what should be used instead.

Thanks for reading.

You defend your point of view with alot of data that has been around for a long time and is there for all to see, the ones that care anyway. You make some valid points and others based on your personal observations. I will not attempt to convince you because I cannot, you are set in your ways, and that's all right we can all choose to use what we see fit, but there comes a time that our theories go flying out the window and we ask ourself why. I have seen this with my hunting group, we are all longtime handloaders and custom rifle buffs, two out of the four of us build rifles on a regular basis, we usually try to hunt with a different caliber every year and have gone full circle on caliber choice. We started out by hunting with Canadian tire stuff like your bud from Newfoundland and got into the wildcats and the high velocitie small diameter stuff where you are, and have now ended our journey with medium to large caliber cartridges lobbing round nose bullets at those poor beasts......... what I can argue is that those larger heavier blunter bullets put game down faster than the lighter higher velocity calibers by a rather large margin, I have no stats to support this but only our personal experiences....but hey to each his own, good hunting and shoot strait.
bigbull

 

[medvedqc]

Moose in Sweden are much smaller than NA moose, they use heavy bullets in the 6.5(160gr usually) and they hunt with dogs, shooting at close range. Your point is moot.

have you hunted in Sweden ?

the way they hund it s call driven beaters and dogs push game to the line of hunters. some is silently done sometimes not but a moose here cannot be shot at long distance ....

but to hunt there you need to take and pass a shooting exam so it s more the bullet placement that the power that kills moose. swedish moose are not that small : they re more a mix between a shiras and eastern moose so definetly not small ...

they re not only using 160 grains but anything from 139 grains (mini) and up.

if the 6,5x55 is so or was so popular it s due to swedish mauser availability but the 30-06 was the caliber i ve seen the most when i hunted there.

in Finland they were using a lot the 308.

for a driven (battue) hunting mode i prefer the 9,3x62 but the swedish 6,5 is absolutely able to put down a moose as bow hunters are showing us each time is the placement more than the power ... but i prefer myself have a little more power ...

 

[grit]

The shooting exam should be implemented everywhere.

 

[medvedqc]

The shooting exam should be implemented everywhere.

Grit,
i agree.
i even prefer the norway shooting ones with proficiency for each firearms but we can dream about that.

 

[kman300]

If numbers and energy figures don't mean anything then what determines what is and what is not a moose caliber? I'm still waiting for someone to formulate that criteria.