26 Nosler????

Yep Kevan you are correct, but Nosler states that it is a shortened 7 RUM which Remington rebated the rim to .532 to use in standard magnum boltface guns. Please don't let's use the Ruger orphan as a reference, it has been rebated to the normal 375 H&H dia of .532 as has been an industry standard for more than 100 years now for belted mags. Basically it is a 6.5 Dakota with a .532 rim, not new, not terribly exciting, not much better than the 264 WM............end of story. The 264 died because people said it was a barrel burner (hogwash, I say), so what is to be said of the 26 Nosler with more powder capacity than the 264. My 264 WM gets well over 3500 fps from 120s and over 3200 fps with 140s, what is the 26 Nosler going to do beyond this.........equal the 6.5X300 Wby that's been around for 40 or more years. If they really really wanted to do something impressive maybe they should have forgot about shortening the 7 RUM and just necked it down............if you're gonna burn barrels let's do it in style !!!
Actually, the 264 win mag died because it did nothing any better than the 270 win with the powders available at that time, and it really still doesn't. It will do a bit better if it has a 26 inch tube, but with the 24 inch tubes that Winchester put on them they where totally irrelevant.
Ivor
 
I like the new 26 Nosler cartridge, it offers great laser flat shooting ballistics, and probably very accurate as well,..................hmmmmmm, most similar to the 270 Weatherby. Off the top of my head, a very close twin ballistic.
 
Actually, the 264 win mag died because it did nothing any better than the 270 win with the powders available at that time, and it really still doesn't. It will do a bit better if it has a 26 inch tube, but with the 24 inch tubes that Winchester put on them they where totally irrelevant.
Ivor

Well ivor, will a 24" 270 drive a 140 at over 3200 fps? Cause my 24" 264 WM will..........140 Nosler Partition at a chrono'd 3224 fps through an Oehler 35P, sorry but I ain't never seen a 270 that would do that, unless it was suffixed by Weatherby !!!
The 264 died for a couple of reasons but the 270 wasn't one of them. The barrel metallurgy wasn't up to snuff back when Winchester introduced it and it did have limited barrel life, if one shot it like it was a varmint rifle. Secondly it was slaughtered by a gun writer of great influence in the day (don't remember the guy's name off the top of my head) and never really recovered, totally. And third it was a metric caliber regardless of what the name said, with no brethren on this side of the pond to speak of, since the demise of the 256 Newton.
The factory ballistics were optimistic to say the least back then, but one must remember the original Westerner had a 26" tube, none the less they were still optimistic. However so were the published 270 ballistics back in the 60s, taken from a 26" test barrel and having very little in common with the average 22" sporter of the day.
One must also keep in mind there was a much smaller percentage of shooters who handloaded back then and 270 ammo was in every corner store in every little rat hole in North America. The 264 left the gate with a 10 horse-length disadvantage. Add to that Remingtons introduction of the 7mm RM just 4 years later and the brush fire it ignited, and it isn't hard to see how timing and circumstances weren't kind to the 264 Winchester Magnum.
All these circumstances aside the 264 WM is still a significantly superior cartridge to the 270 Win and with the introduction of many new powders for these bore/capacity cartridges it just keeps getting better.
 
Well ivor, will a 24" 270 drive a 140 at over 3200 fps? Cause my 24" 264 WM will..........140 Nosler Partition at a chrono'd 3224 fps through an Oehler 35P, sorry but I ain't never seen a 270 that would do that, unless it was suffixed by Weatherby !!!
The 264 died for a couple of reasons but the 270 wasn't one of them. The barrel metallurgy wasn't up to snuff back when Winchester introduced it and it did have limited barrel life, if one shot it like it was a varmint rifle. Secondly it was slaughtered by a gun writer of great influence in the day (don't remember the guy's name off the top of my head) and never really recovered, totally. And third it was a metric caliber regardless of what the name said, with no brethren on this side of the pond to speak of, since the demise of the 256 Newton.
The factory ballistics were optimistic to say the least back then, but one must remember the original Westerner had a 26" tube, none the less they were still optimistic. However so were the published 270 ballistics back in the 60s, taken from a 26" test barrel mooand having very little in common with the average 22" sporter of the day.
One must also keep in mind there was a much smaller percentage of shooters who handloaded back then and 270 ammo was in every corner store in every little rat hole in North America. The 264 left the gate with a 10 horse-length disadvantage. Add to that Remingtons introduction of the 7mm RM just 4 years later and the brush fire it ignited, and it isn't hard to see how timing and circumstances weren't kind to the 264 Winchester Magnum.
All these circumstances aside the 264 WM is still a significantly superior cartridge to the 270 Win and with the introduction of many new powders for these bore/capacity cartridges it just keeps getting better.
Just a cursory look at the Hogdgon Reloading annual shows the fastest load out of a 26 inch barrel as 3026 fps with retumbo. This load shows 63000psi. If you are getting another 175fps than that out of your 264, Then you are achieving it with significantly higher pressures, and that is already a very high pressure load.
Conversly, the 270win is achieving 2979fps with H1000 out of a 24 inch barrel at 50800CUP; marginally below the max SAMMI spec.
Explain your numbers please.
IvorEdit- this is Apple's to Apple's with 140gr bullets in both.
 
I agree wholeheartedly with Doug, once again. 140's at 3200 out of a 24" 264 is usually achievable, for sure in a 26" tube.
Best I have ever done with a 24" 270 and 140's is just a tad over 3000. Plus the BC of the 6.5/140 is superior to the 270/140.

Retumbo is obviously just a tad fast for max velocities in the 264 [I always got better results with old H5010, H870 and H570]

Today, since these are gone, there are replacements like Reloder 33 and 50, BMG 50, and Vihtavuori 24N41, to get max
performance from the 264 Winny.
I actually reached 3300 with one 26" 264 Win Mag [Pac-Nor 3 groove] and H5010. Case life was great, and what a zinger!!

Shot a nice Bull Elk at 557 lasered yards with the 140 Partition....he took three steps and piled up.
Bullet exited after mushing both lungs.

So many have parroted the fallacy that the 264 is just a louder 270, that many others have started to take it as gospel.
This is simply not true with any of the half-dozen 264 Win Mags I have owned vs a similar number of 270 Winchesters.

The 26 Nosler should best the 264 Winny by a noticeable amount, so should really be a performer in the field.

Regards, Dave.
 
Just a cursory look at the Hogdgon Reloading annual shows the fastest load out of a 26 inch barrel as 3026 fps with retumbo. This load shows 63000psi. If you are getting another 175fps than that out of your 264, Then you are achieving it with significantly higher pressures, and that is already a very high pressure load.
Conversly, the 270win is achieving 2979fps with H1000 out of a 24 inch barrel at 50800CUP; marginally below the max SAMMI spec.
Explain your numbers please.
IvorEdit- this is Apple's to Apple's with 140gr bullets in both.
The parent case is the .338 win mag for the .264 and the .30-06 is the parent case for the .270. Aint no way the .270 is going to be that close with 20 grain disadvantage. I don't think the laws of diminishing returns trumps physics in this case.
 
The parent case is the .338 win mag for the .264 and the .30-06 is the parent case for the .270. Aint no way the .270 is going to be that close with 20 grain disadvantage. I don't think the laws of diminishing returns trumps physics in this case.
Don't argue with me, tell Hodgdon that their balliticians are wrong.
Ivor
 
Comparing apples to apples with the 140 grain 26 inch barrel:

264 Winchester Mag. Muzzle Velocity - 3,021 with 24 inch barrel - 26 inch barrel approx. 3,150

26 Nosler - Muzzle Velocity - 3,300

270 Weatherby - Muzzle Velocity - 3,293

These figures are from the Nosler 7th Edition. As I mentioned in a prior post, the 26 Nosler and the 270 Weatherby are ballistic twins, so to speak.
 
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Actually, the 264 win mag died because it did nothing any better than the 270 win with the powders available at that time, and it really still doesn't. It will do a bit better if it has a 26 inch tube, but with the 24 inch tubes that Winchester put on them they where totally irrelevant.
Ivor

The 264 didn't get the attention it deserved due to the 7mm Rem Mag. Remington did a far better marketing job. The 270 had nothing to do with it.

Comparing apples to apples with the 140 grain 26 inch barrel:

264 Winchester Mag. Muzzle Velocity - 3,021 with 24 inch barrel - 26 inch barrel approx. 3,150

26 Nosler - Muzzle Velocity - 3,300

270 Weatherby - Muzzle Velocity - 3,463

These figures are from the Nosler 7th Edition. The 270 Weatherby still reigns supreme in the .277 and the .264 caliber from noted muzzle velocities. I'm loyal to Nosler bullets, however they haven't convinced me that their 26 Nosler is supreme to the 270 Weatherby.

You're not comparing apples to apples. The 270 has a .277 diameter versus the others .264. By that same "apple to apple" comparison, the 280 Rem will always beat the 270 Win with 140 grain bullets due to the larger bore. And yes, when the 264 WM and 7mm RM fire 140 gr. bullets out of a 26" bbl., the 7RM will always win. Howevre, I think everyone is missing the point of what these 264 cals are designed for. You can drop to 100 or 120 gr. bullets, and with todays technology and construction of bullets, they leave the 270 with lightweights in the dust.
 
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The 264 didn't get the attention it deserved due to the 7mm Rem Mag. Remington did a far better marketing job. The 270 had nothing to do with it.
You nailed it, the 270 win does go faster because there is more gas pushing against the base of the bullet. Bullet weight was the apples part.
Ivor


You're not comparing apples to apples. The 270 has a .277 diameter versus the others .264. By that same "apple to apple" comparison, the 280 Rem will always beat the 270 Win with 140 grain bullets due to the larger bore. And yes, when the 264 WM and 7mm RM fire 140 gr. bullets out of a 26" bbl., the 7RM will always win. Howevre, I think everyone is missing the point of what these 264 cals are designed for. You can drop to 100 or 120 gr. bullets, and with todays technology and construction of bullets, they leave the 270 with lightweights in the dust.

Their goes your ballistic advantage.
Ivor
 
Their goes your ballistic advantage.
Ivor

Most game doesn't care about minute differences in ballistics and none of these calibers are what one would consider in the running for target competition. Most of us that shoot these calibers may do so for no other reason than they're a bit obscure and not everyone and their dog has one. If you enjoy your 270, that's fine, there's nothing wrong with it. I've had a few and they've always left me uninspired and bored, same with the 7RM. Perhaps others feel the same way about the 264 WM and 26 Nosler, I'm fine with that.
 
You are absolutely right, the 277 diameter bullet does get more of a push on its backside than the 264 diameter. And yes, that does give it a bit of a velocity advantage.
Ivor
 
Most game doesn't care about minute differences in ballistics and none of these calibers are what one would consider in the running for target competition. Most of us that shoot these calibers may do so for no other reason than they're a bit obscure and not everyone and their dog has one. If you enjoy your 270, that's fine, there's nothing wrong with it. I've had a few and they've always left me uninspired and bored, same with the 7RM. Perhaps others feel the same way about the 264 WM and 26 Nosler, I'm fine with that.
I actually don't have a 270 win at this time, I just noticed some rather high velocities being expounded for the 264 win mag that could only be due to pushing the pressure envelope.
Ivor
 
Ivor........come back when you have the experience that Eagleye and I have and tell me the 264 doesn't beat the 270 hands down...........who gives a fat rats a$$ what the pressures are as long as it is contained in the brass case and one can use it several times !!! You guys and your meaningless pressure quotes. Do you have pressure testing equipment, if not then where do you dredge up these numbers, some computer program that can't possibly take all the variables into consideration, but by God it's gospel to you. Well it ain't to me, I load for every single rifle I own (and that's a lot) and each load is tailored to that rifle and cartridge and is worked up responsibly. I'm getting a little tired of keyboard experts telling me my loads produce 75 or 80,000 psi......sorry guys it ain't possible as the brass case will only withstand between 65 and 75,000 psi without ejecting it's primer. None of my loads eject their primers so...............I also use the best chronographing equipment available today, times 2, the Oehler 35P.
Ivor, have you ever even owned a 264 and loaded for it? I somehow doubt it, cause anyone who has owned and loaded for them has a whole different outlook on the 264. You are just quoting loading books and data aren't you? See and this is what really chokes me is trying to talk reason with someone who has never really done the loading and chrono'ing, but just chooses to quote books and computer programs, and berate those who have and tell them their velocities are impossible unless they are running pressures beyond the capability of the brass case. Between Eagleye and myself we have more than 90 years of loading experience over literally hundreds of cartridges, and we know things the manuals will never tell you. But hey buy a 270 and be happy believing it is every bit as good as a 264 Win Mag !!!
 
Ivor........come back when you have the experience that Eagleye and I have and tell me the 264 doesn't beat the 270 hands down...........who gives a fat rats a$$ what the pressures are as long as it is contained in the brass case and one can use it several times !!! You guys and your meaningless pressure quotes. Do you have pressure testing equipment, if not then where do you dredge up these numbers, some computer program that can't possibly take all the variables into consideration, but by God it's gospel to you. Well it ain't to me, I load for every single rifle I own (and that's a lot) and each load is tailored to that rifle and cartridge and is worked up responsibly. I'm getting a little tired of keyboard experts telling me my loads produce 75 or 80,000 psi......sorry guys it ain't possible as the brass case will only withstand between 65 and 75,000 psi without ejecting it's primer. None of my loads eject their primers so...............I also use the best chronographing equipment available today, times 2, the Oehler 35P.
Ivor, have you ever even owned a 264 and loaded for it? I somehow doubt it, cause anyone who has owned and loaded for them has a whole different outlook on the 264. You are just quoting loading books and data aren't you? See and this is what really chokes me is trying to talk reason with someone who has never really done the loading and chrono'ing, but just chooses to quote books and computer programs, and berate those who have and tell them their velocities are impossible unless they are running pressures beyond the capability of the brass case. Between Eagleye and myself we have more than 90 years of loading experience over literally hundreds of cartridges, and we know things the manuals will never tell you. But hey buy a 270 and be happy believing it is every bit as good as a 264 Win Mag !!!
Really?! Would someone bab m, cause I dint know if I wanna be included with this ass!
 
Ivor........come back when you have the experience that Eagleye and I have and tell me the 264 doesn't beat the 270 hands down...........who gives a fat rats a$$ what the pressures are as long as it is contained in the brass case and one can use it several times !!! You guys and your meaningless pressure quotes. Do you have pressure testing equipment, if not then where do you dredge up these numbers, some computer program that can't possibly take all the variables into consideration, but by God it's gospel to you. Well it ain't to me, I load for every single rifle I own (and that's a lot) and each load is tailored to that rifle and cartridge and is worked up responsibly. I'm getting a little tired of keyboard experts telling me my loads produce 75 or 80,000 psi......sorry guys it ain't possible as the brass case will only withstand between 65 and 75,000 psi without ejecting it's primer. None of my loads eject their primers so...............I also use the best chronographing equipment available today, times 2, the Oehler 35P.
Ivor, have you ever even owned a 264 and loaded for it? I somehow doubt it, cause anyone who has owned and loaded for them has a whole different outlook on the 264. You are just quoting loading books and data aren't you? See and this is what really chokes me is trying to talk reason with someone who has never really done the loading and chrono'ing, but just chooses to quote books and computer programs, and berate those who have and tell them their velocities are impossible unless they are running pressures beyond the capability of the brass case. Between Eagleye and myself we have more than 90 years of loading experience over literally hundreds of cartridges, and we know things the manuals will never tell you. But hey buy a 270 and be happy believing it is every bit as good as a 264 Win Mag !!!

100% in agreement with this! Walk the walk, then decide what works and what does not.

BTW, ivor, personal insults are not needed.

Dave.
 
Over the last 30 yrs. I've owned 3 264s and my brother inlaw has 1. These rifles have taken a wide variety of game, from antelope to elk, all shot with 120 gr Nosler BTs. Neither of us have ever used 140s, I save those for my 6.5x300 Wby.
 
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