26 Nosler????

Republic of Alberta said:
People are getting just about as tired of listening to hot rod experts as they are looking at Petersons carpet. And like Petersons carpet, bragging about how hot your loads are went out of style 20 years ago.
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Myself personally, I try to keep it simple when discussing velocity, accuracy and firearms; however, I do prefer accuracy over velocity. I don't try to get into deep thought details on any issue, and keep to the KISS theory in "all aspects" of life. Same as hunting, I keep it simple and stick to the basic fundamentals of pursing game. Heaven forbid me to utilize all these electronic gadgets, scents, camo clothing, tree stands, GPS, range finders, cell phones, etc. I don't get it about the Petersons carpet?
 
Republic of Alberta said:
People are getting just about as tired of listening to hot rod experts as they are looking at Petersons carpet. And like Petersons carpet, bragging about how hot your loads are went out of style 20 years ago.
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With the variety of ballistic reticle and turret scopes available today, some of these new hotrod cartridges do come as a surprise. I guess they do appeal to some and at the end of the day they being introduced to sell more guns so you can't blame manufacturers. If guys want to shoot them I've got no issues with it but the advantages are nearly negligible....not enough to offset the short life a barrel will have anyhow. At one time velocity offered up significant advantages for those wanting to shoot longer ranges.....not so much any more.
 
RoA.......don't think there was any bragging about hot loads going on in this thread.........my quoted velocities are the same as Winchester gave back in 1958 when the cartridge was introduced. Regardless of cartridge or load being discussed I'm just getting tired of debating real world experience, actually loading test loads and chronographing them vs computer generated, manual mired, keyboard expert, parrots !!!
But then again, it is the internet, I guess.............home of the keyboard expert on all topics...........
 
sheephunter said:
With the variety of ballistic reticle and turret scopes available today, some of these new hotrod cartridges do come as a surprise. I guess they do appeal to some and at the end of the day they being introduced to sell more guns so you can't blame manufacturers. If guys want to shoot them I've got no issues with it but the advantages are nearly negligible....not enough to offset the short life a barrel will have anyhow. At one time velocity offered up significant advantages for those wanting to shoot longer ranges.....not so much any more.
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Im not talking about large capacity cases.



Now back to topic., take a look at the 6.5 Allen Magnum. Here is some info on the 338 ultra necked down to 6.5. Taken from Kirby Allen's web site. Kirby usually works his loads up to the point that multiple firings of the brass are possible. Not sure what pressure as I have never seen pressure tested data.

Parent Case: 338 Remington Ultra Magnum

Recommended Bullets: 100 and 120 grain Ballistic Tip, 130 and 140 grain Accubond, 142 gr Sierra Matchking.

Recommended Powders: Ramshot Magnum, H-US869, WC-860 and WC-872

Recommended Primers: Federal 215 Large Rifle Magnum

Velocity Performance:
Bullet Weight Muzzle Velocity(30" barrel length)
100 gr. 4100 fps
120 gr. 3800 fps
130 gr. 3700 fps
140 gr. (Accubond) 3550 fps
142 gr. 3550 fps
 
c-fbmi said:
RoA.......don't think there was any bragging about hot loads going on in this thread.........my quoted velocities are the same as Winchester gave back in 1958 when the cartridge was introduced. Regardless of cartridge or load being discussed I'm just getting tired of debating real world experience, actually loading test loads and chronographing them vs computer generated, manual mired, keyboard expert, parrots !!!
But then again, it is the internet, I guess.............home of the keyboard expert on all topics...........
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That's fine, most know that the older data was built off case head expansion and maybe copper crush if they wanted to get fancy. This left a lot of anomaly's between cartridges. The best way to compare two cartridges however is with modern pressure tested data. This way it shows very little anomaly's amongst performance. Generally speaking, velocity rises at approximately 1/4 the rate of case capacity rise. Also velocity rises at 1/2 the rate of pressure rise if both are expressed as a percentage.
 
sheephunter said:
With the variety of ballistic reticle and turret scopes available today, some of these new hotrod cartridges do come as a surprise. I guess they do appeal to some and at the end of the day they being introduced to sell more guns so you can't blame manufacturers. If guys want to shoot them I've got no issues with it but the advantages are nearly negligible....not enough to offset the short life a barrel will have anyhow. At one time velocity offered up significant advantages for those wanting to shoot longer ranges.....not so much any more.
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Sheep I hear what you are saying but adjustable scopes can't compensate for all the advantages of velocity. Reduced time of flight has a lot of positive aspects, beyond just trajectory........increased energy on target, significantly less wind drift, less chance of target movement during ToF, increased bullet upset and expansion, thereby increasing energy transfer. And for those of us who consistently forget our rangefinders at home, the ability to make long range shots without excessive hold over. I use nothing but single crosshair scopes without adjustments for hunting, and depending on caliber I know exactly where to hold for any shot within the capabilities of yours truly and the cartridge I am shooting.........for me velocity is the single greatest advantage I have in the field. I don't like extraneous gadgets while hunting and I hate clutter in my scope, just give me a single aiming point and lots of trigger time with my rifle and cartridge. Old school, I know, but hell I'm too old to change now and come willingly into the age of electronics. I like the way I do it, without the benefits of adjustable scopes and rangefinders..........just give me MORE velocity!!!! :D:D;)
 
I'll give you the wind drift argument but by going to super high BC bullets even a lot of that can be mitigated. I get that some guys do like high velocity cartridges and I'm not criticizing but in this day and age of gadgetry, the benefits are minimal for those of us that use gadgets....lol The more prone shooting I do...the more I appreciate low recoil cartridges. The Creedmor is fast becoming my favourite!

You'll never forget your rangefinder if it's inside your binos ;)
 
I think velocity still has an advantage as far as hunting and long range shooting goes, although its not as much of an advantage as it was 20 years ago.
 
c-fbmi said:
I'm sorry but I don't understand what it is you are trying to say.........spellcheck can be a wonderful asset.;);)
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I'm saying that I'm about done with this site. When I have someone accuse me of being an internet jockey when he himself has thousands of posts, I'm insulted.
I've been hunting and reloading for about 33 years. When velocities are 200fps above the max listed in the book, that can only come from pressure.
I've seen very nice rifles with peened locking lugs, and cracked locking lugs.
I was accused of being rude, but go back and read your post.
Goodby all!
 
sheephunter said:
Possibly, depending on your definition of long-range. Sub 600 yards there really isn't much....if any.
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I would consider long range beginning at over 600 yards and out to what ever distance. My 308win at 600 yards shooting 180gr hornady BTSP's needs roughly 13MOA to be dead on....with a turret scope and a range finder and a good steady rest it isn't hard to make that shot. 20 years ago without a range finder and a standard duplex reticle the same shot would favour a much flatter shooting rifle than the 308win.
however, high velocity rifles for hunting still leave less bullet flight time for things to go wrong.
 
hawk-i said:
however, high velocity rifles for hunting still leave less bullet flight time for things to go wrong.
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In theory but if a tiny fraction of a second difference is going to make that much difference, one should likely not take the shot in the first place. Like I say I've got no issues with those that shoot the fast flyers...I've had my share but in most hunting situations the difference only exists on paper. I know I personally shoot a low recoil rifle from the prone position more accurately than a high recoil one. I know that can make a difference. Perhaps in a heavy rifle the magnums are fine but most of my rifles are pretty lightweight so that likely plays into things as well. I like a rifle that I can shoot with one hand with no worry of scope bite.
 
I cannot understand why the 257 Wby and 7mm Rem Mag are lauded as awesome in all regards, but the 264 Win Mag is a "barrel-burner, and no better than the 270". They all share essentially the same cartridge and only differ by a few percent in bore diameter.

Please too, let's rise above the old myth that the 264 Win Mag "needs a 26" barrel". I have a 6.5-300 Win Mag with a 24" barrel, and 3300 fps is not difficult with a full case of a very slow powder like US869. I could still crack 3100 with a 20" barrel.
 
Andy said:
I cannot understand why the 257 Wby and 7mm Rem Mag are lauded as awesome in all regards, but the 264 Win Mag is a "barrel-burner, and no better than the 270". They all share essentially the same cartridge and only differ by a few percent in bore diameter.

Please too, let's rise above the old myth that the 264 Win Mag "needs a 26" barrel". I have a 6.5-300 Win Mag with a 24" barrel, and 3300 fps is not difficult with a full case of a very slow powder like US869. I could still crack 3100 with a 20" barrel.
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Good points, all things should be measured equally. If you require a rifle with a 20" barrel, why would it be compared to one with a 26" barrel? A velocity of 3000+ fps with any kind of a slippery bullet, is a flat shooter. Why then would you carry a 26" barreled rifle up the side of a mountain, when there's the possibility of getting a shot at an elk or a bear in heavy cover on the way, just so you could make a 200 yard shot on a sheep, once above the tree line? The difference between a 24" barrel and a 26" barrel is mostly a matter of esthetics and personal preference. Maybe a light contour barrel balances better when its a mite longer, so its less about how much more velocity the longer barrel produces. It would be difficult to exploit the difference in trajectory under real world conditions; probably less than a single click on your scope's vertical adjustment, and if holding off . . .!
 
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