.264 winchester pre 64 model 70

tylerjwitty said:
fair enough. guess i was still a twickle in my pops eye when they where around. i have always dealt with sloppy junk

for future refernce what does hand crafting improve exactly? be specific.
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I think "handcrafted" is a bit of a stretch.

Rolex watches are handcrafted.

The stock that Al Biesen put on Jack O'Conors rifle was handcrafted.

The Model 70s made between 36 and 63 were just factory production rifles made on manual machinery dating back to turn of the century technology because that's how things were done.

They are no more handcrafted than a Remington 30, a Savage 99, or a 1960 Chevy Apache.

As for the reason for the value, it's greater demand than supply.

I recently sold a similar short magnum bare action (which is rarer than a H&H incidentally) for $900 and had two party's fighting over it.
 
rgv said:
I think "handcrafted" is a bit of a stretch.
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Maybe a little...:D

With details like hand cut checkering, one peice machined bolt, 3 pos safety, and milled steel parts, it doesnt seem comparable to stamped metal, pressed checkering and tube steel rifles of today...

IMO, early sakos, browning fn, and other fn mausers fit into the fine crafted category as well...

Unfortunately, like you stated, supply vs demand has driven the ones worth owning out of most people's price range...
 
it was an awesome cal. that was almost immediately over shadowed by the rem 7mm. its one of those cal. now that has value to those who have an attachment for one reason or another,friend of mines dad shot everything with one .ammo can be bought but isn,t easy to find so its futher restriced in value as mostly for handloaders. $ 4-6 hun. sounds fair.but you might have trouble moving it.
 
tylerjwitty said:
i have been pondering this for some time now maybe you folks might now.

how were the action's lug rails machined into the action? before edm. shaper?
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I believe they were broached, the same way a keyway is cut into a pulley bushing. It is a cutter that is pressed into the hole in the shape that you want to end up with. It is usually done in increments and shaves steel a few thou at a time until the correct dimension is reached. It can be done with multiple broaches or with a shim system that moves the broach over the few thou at a time.

Just a note of interest, PO Ackley had a 45 gall drum full of cracked, broken and "lug set" pre 64 mod 70 actions, he held the opinion that they were one of the worst actions made. The metalurgy varied so greatly that some were so soft that they set lugs with factory ammo and others were so brittle they would crack removing the barrel or trying to install a new one. I heard from a mutual very good friend that, in his latter years, he flat refused to build a rifle for anyone on a pre 64 mod 70 action.
 
c-fbmi said:
I believe they were broached, the same way a keyway is cut into a pulley bushing. It is a cutter that is pressed into the hole in the shape that you want to end up with. It is usually done in increments and shaves steel a few thou at a time until the correct dimension is reached. It can be done with multiple broaches or with a shim system that moves the broach over the few thou at a time.

Just a note of interest, PO Ackley had a 45 gall drum full of cracked, broken and "lug set" pre 64 mod 70 actions, he held the opinion that they were one of the worst actions made. The metalurgy varied so greatly that some were so soft that they set lugs with factory ammo and others were so brittle they would crack removing the barrel or trying to install a new one. I heard from a mutual very good friend that, in his latter years, he flat refused to build a rifle for anyone on a pre 64 mod 70 action.
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kinda thought so. just that there is rad's on them. they don't have to be terribly close. bolt slop ussualy comes from bolt body clearence. my mkii probly has 1/16 but i think there cast ..??..
 
. . Don't listen to the nay sayers and armchair critics: the 264 Westerner, pre-64 Model 70 is a collector gun and originality and condition are very, very important. . It has diddly-squat to do with stainless Remingtons, new Model 70's or whatever anyone's personal opinion is of pre-64 Model 70's being overrated and over priced. . Who cares and who gives a damn; it's worth what it'll sell for and what someone filling in a caliber in their pre-64 Model 70 collection are swilling to pay. . Rarity, Originality and Condition factored into the economic conditions usually sets the price. . I've seen clean examples of pre-64 Model 70 Westerners in 264 priced upwards of $1500. . And yes, they do sell.

From 1936 to 1963, Winchester built 581,471 Model 70 rifles of which 24,114 were chambered in 264 Winchester Magnum.. That's 4.15% of total production. . The 264 made it's debut as the "Westerner", and was offerred from 1960 to 1963. .

Your concern with the 264 should be the stainless steel barrel. . If the barrel is very good to excellent with no throat errosion you're good to go even with that recoil pad. . If the stock hasn't been cut, you can pick up a correct composite buttplate on ebay for $15 to $25 plus shipping. . I have one I could sell you quite reasonable. . If the stock has been cut, you can up the value and selling potential by replacing that aftermarket pad with a reproduction Winchester solid red pat'd dated pad available from Galazan . . http://www.csmcspecials.com/Winchester_Patent_Date_Style_Recoil_Pad_p/pp001.htm

I looked and looked for quite some time to fill the hole in my M70 collection and believe me when I say that 264's aren't falling out of trees on a windy day. . Most of the ones I run across had considerable bluing rubbed off the stainless barrel, lousy bores, scabby wood and so on. .

If you're wanting to sell yours, I would ask $1100 and see where it goes. The after market recoil will discourage most collectors, but you never know.. . So there you have it. .

Rod
 
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Not allowing the barrel to cool between shots will wear out the barrel considerably faster. . Allow the barrel to cool and they'll last a long time.
 
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rgv said:
I think "handcrafted" is a bit of a stretch.


I recently sold a similar short magnum bare action (which is rarer than a H&H incidentally) for $900 and had two party's fighting over it.
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Not a very likely senario with a Remington 700 of any vintage.

These pre64's bring in good money because people don't like what is available
out there today for the same amount that they would spend on an old classic like the pre64, their value will continue to rise because
they feed an economic system based on supply and demand, another factor is investment, you can pretty well bank on it that you will
at least get your money back on your purchase when you decide to sell it, there isn't much that you can buy new that you can say
that about. Something that hasn't been mentioned about the rifle in question is that the M70 Westerner came with a stainless
barrel that was "blued" from the factory, check your rifle barrel markings an good chance it will say stainless on it, corrossion was not usually a
problem with these barrels but errossion could be if the owner shot it alot and didn't take precautions. I own both a westerner and a featherweight
and think they are excellent rifles and a very effective hunting caliber too. BTW the FTW came from the factory with a red/brown Pachmyer white line recoil pad
and my Westerner has a metal buttplate.
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