270 - 1:10 Twist what grain?

Factory 150 gr .270 Winchester ammo in an off the shelf rifle will shoot well enough for the intended job, which is to hit a big game animal at medium long range and produce a humane one shot kill. It doesn't matter if it is more or less accurate than the 130 gr load, because in the field you won't shoot close enough to make use of the difference, so while a .75 MOA load is a confidence builder, it won't perform any better than a 2 MOA load. Choose the load that is appropriate for your hunting conditions and for the size of game you intend to hunt. Sight in your rifle for that load, shoot it over a variety of ranges to get a feel for the trajectory at the longer ranges, and to see how it behaves in the wind. If you do that, you've done far more than the average hunter out there.
 
Boomer, you are so right. All this fiddling around with ammo to try and get those super small groups, under perfect conditions, and whether or not they are created at the range, or on the keyboard, is meanigless in the hunting field.
Actually, it's a bit meaningless to sight in your hunting rifle on a bench rest. A lot of years ago I was preparing for a big rifle shooting match, which would be shot in the prone position (no rests). I sighted in perfectly on a bench rest.
At the match the next day I was an also ran, as the shots on my first target were nicely grouped, but too low. I had to adjust the sights, but that one target kept me out of the winners circle.
Of course, I learned a good lesson. Always sight in your rifle in the same mode you will be using it.
I see everybody and his brother sighting in their hunting rifles at the bench rest, but I have yet to see a bench rest used in the field for shooting game.
 
Sight For Field Use

I agree with the above comments, however, factory ammo shot at the bench that gives a wide spread i.e. over 6" apart for a 3-shot group will likely be disastrous for hunting, resulting in either missing or perhaps maiming the animal or a gut shot, none of which is the desired end result.

Bench shooting, I believe, solidifies the shooting platform - rifle, bases, rings, scope. Once those are tuned, then you can move to field shooting. In finding out what ammo the Sako provided the best groups with I tried a number of manufacturers and grains to find out what whistled down the barrel with the best results. Some of the factory stuff really did give 6" groups, other ammo provided me with 1" or less results. Once I determined that, I then moved towards adjusting my rifle & scope setup to 100 and 200 yard zero's, then moved to field use.

I started this thread because up until Wholesale Sports moved into Langley, it was difficult but not impossible to find a decent 150 grain factory ammo in .270. I've sighted in using 130 grain, and am leaving on a hunting trip in 2 days, so no time left to sort out any 150 grain stuff. This will have to wait until I get back.
 
H4831 said:
Boomer, you are so right. All this fiddling around with ammo to try and get those super small groups, under perfect conditions, and whether or not they are created at the range, or on the keyboard, is meanigless in the hunting field.
Actually, it's a bit meaningless to sight in your hunting rifle on a bench rest.


I enjoy reloading, if I didnt I wouldnt do it. I also like shooting at the range to test out my reloads and have a chat with with my mates and other shooters who may be there. That doesnt mean that is the only type of shooting I do. I like to shoot long range across canyons, with or without the wind, off a bipod or a log, I dont shoot long range without some sort of rest. I like to have confidence with my rifle, ammo and shooting ability, I wouldnt feel confidant with a rifle that couldnt reach out 300 - 400 yds, sorry I dont think 2" groups are good enough. I also dont create groups on the keboard, coming from an experienced shooter as yourself I guess thats a compliment
Click to expand...
 
Boomer said:
Factory 150 gr .270 Winchester ammo in an off the shelf rifle will shoot well enough for the intended job, which is to hit a big game animal at medium long range and produce a humane one shot kill. It doesn't matter if it is more or less accurate than the 130 gr load, because in the field you won't shoot close enough to make use of the difference, so while a .75 MOA load is a confidence builder, it won't perform any better than a 2 MOA load. Choose the load that is appropriate for your hunting conditions and for the size of game you intend to hunt. Sight in your rifle for that load, shoot it over a variety of ranges to get a feel for the trajectory at the longer ranges, and to see how it behaves in the wind. If you do that, you've done far more than the average hunter out there.
Click to expand...

I agree in principle Boomer your statement on confidence builder explains much of the reason I do my testing to strive for the best accuracy I can get. And you're right, for the most part the .75 MOA load won't perform any better than a 2 MOA load but I go at it from the other side of the equation. If the 130gr provides me with better accuracy, that's what I'll go with because I think for the most part, anything the 150gr will do the 130gr will also do. Besides,;) I'm retired, have the time and enjoy reloading and shooting.
 
pete dobinson said:
H4831 said:
Boomer, you are so right. All this fiddling around with ammo to try and get those super small groups, under perfect conditions, and whether or not they are created at the range, or on the keyboard, is meanigless in the hunting field.
Actually, it's a bit meaningless to sight in your hunting rifle on a bench rest.


I enjoy reloading, if I didnt I wouldnt do it. I also like shooting at the range to test out my reloads and have a chat with with my mates and other shooters who may be there. That doesnt mean that is the only type of shooting I do. I like to shoot long range across canyons, with or without the wind, off a bipod or a log, I dont shoot long range without some sort of rest. I like to have confidence with my rifle, ammo and shooting ability, I wouldnt feel confidant with a rifle that couldnt reach out 300 - 400 yds, sorry I dont think 2" groups are good enough. I also dont create groups on the keboard, coming from an experienced shooter as yourself I guess thats a compliment
Click to expand...

If I am loading two bullets of similar construction and design parameters, I too would prefer to use the more accurate of the two, if their terminal performance is equal. If I have to give up terminal performance for a tad better accuracy, I won't do it as that is an unacceptable tradeoff. But if your shooting is within 400 yards, and you are shooting at moose or elk sized animals, how is 2 MOA accuracy, which equates to an 8" group at the outside limit of your range, not satisfactory?

I've had the pleasure to shoot with some pretty talented people from time to time, and while I like to think I'm competent, I'm no sniper. But what I can do, with the exception of the off-hand position beyond 150, is put 2 rounds in 2 MAO from field positions out to 300 yards. Sometime I can stay within 2 MOA even farther though not on demand. Strangely enough though, once the bench has been removed from the equation, many people who claim not to tolerate anything less than a half minute accuracy can no longer shoot up to it, and their groups open up, well beyond 2 MOA. Not that game animals are killed with tight groups, but if a marksman denied the bench can no longer hold 2 MAO on the range where the problems of range and wind estimation are minimized, where the stationary target is well defined and of a known size, where there is plenty of time, and where most shooting is done under optimal light conditions, then what chance does he have of shooting 2 MOA in the field, particularly when the circumstances become difficult as they can with tricky winds, squalls, rapidly changing light conditions, unreliable range indicators, steep shot angles, a moving target, shooting under tight time constraints etc, etc?

If you are fortunate to have a super accurate big game rifle, good for you. If you are talented enough to shoot up to that rifle, congratulations, you can take pride in being numbered within a very select group. But don't say that level of precision is necessary to kill a big game animal over normal hunting ranges under field conditions. The uninitiated will throw up their hands and give up knowing they can never match that level of performance with their surplus rifles and over the counter ammo; when the truth is those who can shoot within 2 MOA in the field are few and far between even when shooting from a prone. Now if only the exceptional individual can shoot within 2 MOA under field conditions, how advantageous is it to the outcome of the hunt to have a half minute rifle? The qualities of the big game rifle relate more it's carrying and handling characteristics and to it's reliability under harsh conditions then to the modern definition of precision. If that was not the case the woods and mountains would be full of guys packing 20 pound match rifles.
Click to expand...
 
On writing posts on these threads it is so hard to get the meaning across that you intended. When I said it was a bit meaningless to sight in your hunting rifle on a bench rest, everyone got the wrong meaning. I meant the final touch up should be done under shooting conditions encountered while hunting.
I gave a perfect example of how it is a poor idea to sight in your rifle on a bench rest, then shoot it hand held in a competetive match.
I have been shoooting hunting rifles, using the best rest I can get, for longer than most of you on here have been alive. I have several times posted on here, when I get a new, or new-to-me rifle, the first thing I do is use the best rest I can, then shoot five shots, one after the other, as the barrel heats up, to see how it groups. If the bullets walk as the barrel heats up, it means the rifle needs to be rebedded. Forty-five years ago I was doing this out of a gun shop, as most hunters wanted their rifle sighted in, when they bought a rifle with one of those new fangled scopes on it.
At that time I discovered that most makes of rifles, new, walked the bullets, meaning they were not properly bedded. The great exception, as I have often stated on here, were the Schultz and Larson rifles. I would put either a 2½, or 4 power Weaver, or Bushnel Scope Chief on them, and invariably they would make small, even groups. Five shots under, or right around the one inch mark. On one weekend I tested out five different Schultz & Larson rifles in 7 x 61 calibre.
I bought a new rifle for myself, a Sako L61. I litteraly prayed that it would come from the factory all nicely bedded. No such luck! The fifth bullet was three inches higher, at 100 yards, than the first. It took three sessions of bedding, no fibre glass, just proper sanding of the wood and the right place and pressure of the pressure point, to get it. But for many years after that, it exhibeted great accuracy.
Now, up to date. Yesterday, I introduced two new men, both very experienced shooters from another area, to our local shooting range. One fellow asked me to try out his Ruger 77, complete with a custom trigger, in 22-250 calibre. Using a good rest, I squeezed off three shots. I know, three shots is not enough and one group means nothing. However, here is my target. Careful measuring gave .402 over all. Deduct the bullet size, .224, and we get a centre to centre group of .178"
Oh yes, I know, with you guys it would have to be witnessed. So on the bottom right it says shot by H4831 at 100 metres. One witness is Kamlooky form CGNs and the other fellow is not yet a CGN. You can see their signatures on the target.
Here is the target. And was it made with his super ammunition, taylored to that rifle? Not quite. It was made with lowest priced Winchester factory loads on the market!
1112.jpg
 
Bruce, you are so right about it being hard to get your point across when you post on these threads. You and Boomer are both right, sub minute of angle will not make any differance at most hunting ranges, and if you cant shoot off hand it won't make any differance at all. I understand that a properly bedded rifle is important but that is only one elliment of shooting good groups. I feel having a rifle that shoots sub min of angle gives me a better platform to start from. So far reloaded ammunition has been the only way in my rifles. I did have a sako bedded once and I never noticed any change, has that ever happened with any of your rifles? I have to reload as my rifles dont have allot of factory ammo anyway, 284win, 7mmwsm and 308 norma. Lets get to the important stuff, if you have been shooting for twice as long as me that would make you 106 LOL.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom