270 vs 30-06

[John Y Cannuck]

Or better yet..

The .45-70 For the One Gun Big Game Hunter

By Matthew J. Hewett


In searching for the one gun with which to hunt big game all over the world I have come to the conclusion that the .45-70 in a lever or falling block action is the perfect rifle. With these rifles a hunter has the ability to fire factory ammunition that will take any game animal on this planet, and reloaders can create loads ranging from mild to magnum. Sure, there are other cartridges that are better suited to specific tasks, but the 45-70 can do all of them and has done so well and efficiently.

With standard 300 grain JHP factory loads from the Big Three companies you have ammo for CXP2 class game: deer, sheep, goats, feral pigs and the smaller species of antelope. The Winchester 300 grain Partition gold and Remington 405 grain soft point load will serve for CXP2 and CXP3 class game such as deer, caribou, and elk. The 405 grain load can also take all of the bear species as well as moose.

Then there are the full power and +P loads from Garret, Cor-Bon and Buffalo Bore. With these you can successfully hunt all CXP3 class game, and even Cape buffalo, water buffalo, bison, and elephant. The 405 grain flat point Penetrator load from Cor-Bon has taken Cape Buffalo, zebra, and eland. The 500 grain FMJ flat point from Buffalo Bore and the 540 grain Hammerhead bullets from Garret have taken game up to and including hippo, rhino, and elephant.

With the modern falling block single shot rifles such as the Dakota 10, Ruger No.1 and Browning 1885, you can hand load spitzer bullets without worry. This includes the deadly Barnes 350 grain X-bullet spitzer. The strong action of these single shots lets you use the hottest .45-70 reloads.

A good lever action or falling block rifle with a low powered scope can make 250 yard shots possible. The key here is to practice and know the trajectory your load.

A man looking for one gun with which to hunt medium to large game animals cannot go wrong with a modern 45-70 rifle and ammunition. If I were armed with a modern 45-70 with a good peep sight or a low powered scope, I would not hesitate to hunt any game in any environment on earth.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/45-70_big_game_hunter.htm

 

[John Y Cannuck]

but that's :shock: off topic :shock:
so here's this:

The .270 Winchester

By Chuck Hawks


.270 Win.

Illustration courtesy of Hornady Mfg. Co.


The load that made the .270 Winchester's reputation was the 130 grain spitzer bullet at a muzzle velocity (MV) of 3140 fps. The recoil energy from firing this load in an 8 pound rifle amounts to 16.5 ft. lbs. This level of performance can still be achieved by the reloader.

Today's standard factory loads drive the 130 grain spitzer to about 3060 fps. The Speer 130 grain flat base spitzer has a ballistic coefficient (BC) of .408, and a sectional density (SD) of .242; the 130 grain boat tail spitzer has a BC of .449. These numbers are right in the big game ballpark. And because the 130 grain .270 bullet is fast, it hits hard. Factory energy figures look like this: muzzle energy (ME) of 2705 ft. lbs., 100 yard energy of 2226 ft. lbs., 200 yard energy of 1817 ft. lbs., 300 yard energy of 1468 ft. lbs., and 400 yard energy of 1175 ft. lbs.

The other classic .270 factory load is a 150 grain spitzer bullet at a MV of 2850 fps and ME of 2705 ft. lbs. This load can also be duplicated by reloaders, and the Speer 150 grain flat base spitzer bullet has a ballistic coefficient of .481 and a SD of .278. The sleek 150 grain boat tail bullet has a BC of .496.

Here are some .270 specifications that the reloader should keep in mind: bullet diameter .277", maximum COL 3.34", maximum case length 2.54", MAP 52,000 cup.

Most .270 reloaders report excellent results with bullets ranging weighing from 100 grains to 160 grains. The range of 130-150 grains remains the most popular, however. I chose H4831 powder for the examples below because it is widely available, accurate and offers excellent performance in the .270 Win. Other good powders include IMR 4831, IMR 4350, RL-22, and H4350. The .270 is an easy cartridge for which to reload.

The 130 grain bullet is still the most popular with reloaders. For years I used the 130 grain Hornady Interlock SP bullet for my standard .270 handload. The sixth edition of the Hornady Handbook of Cartridge Reloading shows loads with their various 130 grain bullets using 52.3 grains of H4831 for a MV of 2600 fps, to a maximum load of 62.0 grains of H4831 for a MV of 3100 fps. These Hornady loads used Hornady brass and Winchester WLR primers, and were tested in a 24" rifle barrel.

The Nosler Reloading Guide, Fifth Edition lists loads for their 150 grain bullets ranging from 51.0 grains of H4831 for a MV of 2728 fps, to 55.0 grains of H4831 for a MV of 2905 fps. The 150 grain Partition spitzer bullet is a proven favorite for tough game like North American elk. The Nosler loads mentioned above were developed using Winchester cases and Federal 210 primers; they were chronographed in a 24" rifle barrel.

Bullets heavier than 150 grains are available to the reloader who fancies them. The heaviest bullet for the .270 that I know of is the Barnes 180 grain Original. According to the Hodgdon Data Manual, 26th Edition this bullet can be driven to a MV of 2434 fps by 51.0 grains of H4831, or a MV of 2581 fps by a maximum load of 54.0 grains of the same powder. Barnes also makes another interesting .277 inch bullet, the 150 grain RN solid. This completely non-expanding bullet would be just the thing if you had to shoot through an armored car with your .270!

http://www.chuckhawks.com/270win.htm

 

[John Y Cannuck]

Ok, I turned the page, your turn... :lol:

 

[agilent_one]

Although you did make one glaring mathematical error, no doubt due to the Euphoria of cracking this age old mystery. Obviously 30-06 does not equal 36 because:

30
-06
----
=24

So now I'm lost again, what have we learned from the numerologists?

This mathematical theory must be the correct one. IF you apply the same logic to a different caliber:

30-30=0

This sounds about right to me.

 

[cariboo_kid]

Although you did make one glaring mathematical error, no doubt due to the Euphoria of cracking this age old mystery. Obviously 30-06 does not equal 36 because:

30
-06
----
=24

So now I'm lost again, what have we learned from the numerologists?

This mathematical theory must be the correct one. IF you apply the same logic to a different caliber:

30-30=0


This sounds about right to me.

:lol: and I thought I got people riled with slagging the 30-06 :lol:

 

[Steve]

but that's Shocked off topic Shocked
so here's this:

The .270 Winchester

By Chuck Hawks
.270 Win...

Oh Bob, please don't tell me that you like Chuck Hawks. He regurgitates whatever is written in the mags. Read enough of his articles and you'll encounter things like "although I haven't actually tried one yet..." :roll:

That's okay I guess. WRT this thread, I suppose he has as much right as anyone else to an opinion. :lol:

I'm still torn between getting a No 4 LE reworked to 45/70 or getting another Guide Gun (sans porting this time). I've had a 30/06 for years - tried a 270 but it was just so very, very bland - not enough bullets from which to choose for me. So I disinfected it and buried the thing in the back 40.

Back to numerology! 8)

 

[John Y Cannuck]

Chuck hawks has Americanized opinions, as do a lot of the hunting rags. Conditions up here are different, and the requirements we have are different too.
It's just like the cars they build. All designed for the American climate. Me I need an air condtioner about three weeks a year. Give me a decent heater and a fast defroster I'll be happy.

Hmm, I wonder if steve will leave me his treasure map to his back 40. :twisted:

Ah what the hell, you'll probably out live me anyway. :roll:

 

[Steve]

I have no intention of dying. It would cut into my time. :lol:

 

[Salty]

Back to the numerology. I think Steve had it right the - is there, well cause its just there. Not to be used as a minus sign at all. An example:

45-70

Is one to assume that cause 45 minus 70 is actually minus 25, that the mighty 45-70 Gubment is no good :shock: :shock: :lol: :lol: I don't think so. 8)

But, consider this:

6.5x55= 721.5

 

[cariboo_kid]

Salty, you are probably right. Maybe the 45-70 gets that score for a reason though, it might leave a 25' crater on impact.

 

[Salty]

That's it !!!

a 25 foot hole is, minus 25 eh! Didn't think of it that way. Yur pretty smart there cariboo' :wink:

 

[Gatehouse]

I aways thgought that Chuck Hawks articles were just reworked versions of a Nosler manual..

 

[Steve]

Yeah, the Nosler manual and some other already published material. :lol: He's got a decent racket going though. Pay him to have 100% access to his "treasure trove" of previously released, publicly known information. :lol:

He keeps revising which is a good thing. As posted earlier, he occasionally slips and tells the world that he hasn't actually tried a specific piece fo equipment, bullet or cartridge, but it sounds okay and so he recommends it. :lol: Hopefully he edits those slips out of the narratives. :lol:

 

[Salty]

He's got a decent racket going though. :

Including owning about the first page of hits if one does a search for any particular cartridge. A little internet chess at work there? :lol:

Bet he's never even hunted squirrels :roll:

 

[John Y Cannuck]

Yeah, the Nosler manual and some other already published material. :lol: He's got a decent racket going though. Pay him to have 100% access to his "treasure trove" of previously released, publicly known information. :lol:

He keeps revising which is a good thing. As posted earlier, he occasionally slips and tells the world that he hasn't actually tried a specific piece fo equipment, bullet or cartridge, but it sounds okay and so he recommends it. :lol: Hopefully he edits those slips out of the narratives. :lol:

Don't tell me anyone here subscribes :!: :?: :roll: :arrow: :shock:

 

[Salty]

Yeah, the Nosler manual and some other already published material. :lol: He's got a decent racket going though. Pay him to have 100% access to his "treasure trove" of previously released, publicly known information. :lol:

He keeps revising which is a good thing. As posted earlier, he occasionally slips and tells the world that he hasn't actually tried a specific piece fo equipment, bullet or cartridge, but it sounds okay and so he recommends it. :lol: Hopefully he edits those slips out of the narratives. :lol:

Don't tell me anyone here subscribes :!: :?: :roll: :arrow: :shock:

Hmm. A little more numerology at work here? I think so.

Let's count Steve's smilies (4)
And Johnny Y's (5)

That's 45 in my book and that is what I've been thinking I should actually call the Squirelzilla. I started with 450 copying the Marlin approach, then considered the more proper 458. But lately I've been thinking a more traditional 45Sqz would better suit. This seals the deal 8)

 

[Mudpuppy]

There still doesn't seem to be a resolution to this topic, any further ideas? :lol:

 

[dangertree]

There still doesn't seem to be a resolution to this topic, any further ideas? :lol:

I think the 'yeas' have it.

 

[cariboo_kid]

There still doesn't seem to be a resolution to this topic, any further ideas? :lol:

We've discovered that nothing we decide here will have merit on the internet until proven in person to the expert in Edmonton. Until that time the Squirrels will hunt us with impunity.



Sorry, couldn't resist.

 

[BIGREDD]

We've discovered that nothing we decide here will have merit on the internet until proven in person to the expert in Edmonton. Until that time the Squirrels will hunt us with impunity.



Sorry, couldn't resist.

Yeah and threads about nothing can either be a lot of fun... or a lot of trash :idea:

I think this one is a lot of fun...... 8)