270 vs 308

[Ski911]

there's a certain school of thought ( which i happen to disagree with) that says elk need 250 grains at 2600 fps or better- that's 338 mag territory-

I agree with your disagreement, with the exception of the elk you find wearing body armor... LOL

The .308 will serve you very well for any game in Canada, if you choose the AMMO properly.

Congrats on the new rifle, I am looking to buy new very soon, I think I am going .308 but was strongly considering .270WSM due to the ultra flat trajectory.

Then I realized it is more likely I need better killing characteristics from the larger bullet, and not extended reach, as I will not likely be taking any shots over 400 yards (or 200 for that matter)

 

[H4831]

It's been said on some of these threads before, but the reason the 30-06 is not away ahead of the 270 and 308 in popularity, is because of the loadings for the 30-06. Old faithful has been around for over 100 years, it has been manufactured in every country that has made sporting rifles and it has been made in every action anyone has ever thought of. Prior to WW1, steel was sometimes hardened a bit haphazardly. For example, the early military rifles made at the Springfield Armoury, had their bolts heat trated by the color of the hot steel! Thus, they now admit that bolts tempered on a bright day, or at better light conditions around their equipment, would be hotter, and thus made more brittle, than would bolts tempered when it was duller, and the steel would appear to be hotter than it actually was. I am sure we have all heard about the low serial number Springfields that may have weak actions, and there are some of them still out there! Also, the Springields were designed for 45,000 psi pressure.
With all the vast array of potentially weak 30-06 rifles out there, the loading companies, both factory loadings and loadings given in manuals, make sure the pressures are down enough to accomidate a weaker action.
The 270 and 308, on the other hand, came out after making steel was a science and there are no weak actions out there for either calibre. Thus, they were loaded to about 55,000 psi.
A modern, bolt action 30-06 can easily be loaded to give a 180 grain bullet 200 feet per second more velocity than the same bullet in a 308. If this figure was with factory, or loading manual loads, and the public knew this, the 30-06 would be head and shoulders above the other two in popularity.
About twenty years ago I started to chronograph loads. I was amazed to find that the 180 grain bullets in the 30-06, either factory loads or loads from a manual, which all claimed 2700 fps, were actually leaving the barrel about 2550 feet per second and sometimes less than that!
I also remember very well when the 308 came out. The gun writers in the glossy, vast circulation American shooting magazines, wrote that handloaders would have a hard time with the 308, in even equalling factory loaded velocities. They said this was because factory loads were right up to full pressure, and a handloader would maybe only have one powder available that would allow him to equal factory velocities.

 

[stubblejumper]

The 270 and 308, on the other hand, came out after making steel was a science and there are no weak actions out there for either calibre. Thus, they were loaded to about 55,000 psi.

I also remember very well when the 308 came out. The gun writers in the glossy, vast circulation American shooting magazines, wrote that handloaders would have a hard time with the 308, in even equalling factory loaded velocities. They said this was because factory loads were right up to full pressure, and a handloader would maybe only have one powder available that would allow him to equal factory velocities.

http://www.leverguns.com/articles/saami_pressures.htm

Note that the SAAMI pressure for the 308win is 62000psi.If the factory loads were only loaded to 55,000psi,they were not being loaded to full pressure,and it would be easy to exceed the velocities achieved with the factory loads.Obviously,either your statement about the 55,000 psi is wrong,or those magazines were wrong.In any case the contradiction leaves your post without any credibility.

 

[sunray]

"...says elk need 250 grains..." Nonsense. The .270 has been killing elk with 130 and 140 grain bullets for eons. You don't need a magnum for anything in North America.

 

[t-star]

that"school of thought" was an article in GUNS AND AMMO magazine, entitled "ELK RIFLES" circa 1990 or so when i read it , i was t/o'ed at the time as they said the 308/180 was "inadequate"unless ranges were under 200 yards- i've seen it done with far less at longer ranges-

 

[John Y Cannuck]

Out to 250 yards, either one should work fine, and I don't think the game will notice much difference, as long as you do your part.

 

[mquality]

270 is a fine rifle but i prefer the 308 or 3006. can not really go wrong with any of them!it sucks to have to choose but no matter what you choose you will be fine under the 250 range.i switched to a 3006 for hunting because i can get more velocity with it than my 308.same bullet 100 fps faster .165 grains work well in both for me.used mostly on deer and moose under 200meters.

 

[bjjzak]

Here's a point to consider if you like to shoot a lot, buy a 308 and stock up on some of the ball ammo floating around there. Shoot your gun from any concievable position you can think of, get lots of practice, and not spend a fortune on ammo. When hunting season hits, you'll have a gun that you are comfortable with and you'll know what it does. Any of the previously mentioned calibers will work great, I chose the 308 because I like to shoot a lot, and milsurp ball ammo lets me play reasonably cheap.

Of course if you have a good reloading set up, that will help as well.

 

[Grizzlypeg]

Got a chance to sight in the new Tikka this hot morning / afternoon. Got lucky and in three shots with some cheap IVI milsurp I was on the 10x ring. Tried a couple of different 150 grain hunting cartrides through it, Federal and Fusion. Was too hot a day to keep shooting and try the Federal Premium. Put two through the same hole on the first two shots with the cheap federal ammo. Third shot unfortunately didn't slip though the same hole and enlarged the group to about an inch. It was so dang hot it wasn't fair to the gun to keep shooting so I alternated between it and my Savage muzzleloader.

The trigger (reasonably light, no creep), bolt that slides like its on ball bearings, good accuracy and light overall weight of this rifle make it a winner. Recoil with 150 grain ammo is negligible and the gun doesn't seem fussy about how you hold, shoot or rest it in the least bit. Going to be an excellent whitetail gun. Can't wait to get a chance to drive out to Selkirk and do some shooting at 200 yards. I think I'll zero the Burris's Ballistic plex 200 yard hash mark at 200 and then see how close it remains at the 100 yard main X.

Tried a 5 dollar bill under the barrel and it won't slide all the way back to the action. Manual says it should be free over the whole length of the barrel. Doesn't give you permission to do some sanding though if it doesn't. Anyone have some experience to share on their synthetic stock Tikka and free floating? If it ain't broke don't fix it?

 

[Mr. Friendly]

Got a chance to sight in the new Tikka this hot morning / afternoon. Got lucky and in three shots with some cheap IVI milsurp I was on the 10x ring. Tried a couple of different 150 grain hunting cartrides through it, Federal and Fusion. Was too hot a day to keep shooting and try the Federal Premium. Put two through the same hole on the first two shots with the cheap federal ammo. Third shot unfortunately didn't slip though the same hole and enlarged the group to about an inch. It was so dang hot it wasn't fair to the gun to keep shooting so I alternated between it and my Savage muzzleloader.

The trigger (reasonably light, no creep), bolt that slides like its on ball bearings, good accuracy and light overall weight of this rifle make it a winner. Recoil with 150 grain ammo is negligible and the gun doesn't seem fussy about how you hold, shoot or rest it in the least bit. Going to be an excellent whitetail gun. Can't wait to get a chance to drive out to Selkirk and do some shooting at 200 yards. I think I'll zero the Burris's Ballistic plex 200 yard hash mark at 200 and then see how close it remains at the 100 yard main X.

Tried a 5 dollar bill under the barrel and it won't slide all the way back to the action. Manual says it should be free over the whole length of the barrel. Doesn't give you permission to do some sanding though if it doesn't. Anyone have some experience to share on their synthetic stock Tikka and free floating? If it ain't broke don't fix it?

when I looked at a Savage 116, it's bolt was rough. went over to a Tikka T3 Lite in synthetic and like you said, the bolt was like it was on ball bearings...in this case tho, you couldn't even fit a bill at the front to slide down to check the free float before it jammed. that was a disappointment to say the least.

 

[Grizzlypeg]

Regarding the Tikka with synthetic stock, regardless of what the manual says, I don't think the barrel is supposed to be free floating all the way to the action. It seems a sheet of paper hits a solid barrier right where the barrel starts to taper. I read a UK review of the gun, a T3 lite in 308 just like mine, and they said its only free floating after the taper. The manual may just be wrong and based on the wood stock or tactical. In any event, the gun shoots as it should. I look forward to lots of good shooting before taking it out in the field to hunt.

 

[mackillan]

I was at the range today with a Tikka T3 300 win mag and it was fine but I cant imagine a semi. I was using a 257 weatherby mag also and by comparison the 300 is a rocker.

oh, yea, she rocks- all of the 'big" boys do-try about double the '06- maybe about 1.75 in the semi- as far as i know there's only one semi magnum out there- the bar, and my 338 will smarten you right up with 1 round if you're half asleep- even with the factory installed recoil pad and the muzzle brake

 

[Grizzlypeg]

Took the stock off the Tikka to look at the design of it beneath the barrel. There is a saddle like crossmember just before where the barrel steps up in diameter. The barrel sits on this thin crossmember and is why the sheet of paper doesn't pass all the way to the action. I believe I will leave it as is. The barrel is centred and free floated forward of this point. It could well be part of the design to centre the barrel in the stock.

 

[watsknew]

You need an Ultra Mag...end of story

 

[blargon]

Tried a 5 dollar bill under the barrel and it won't slide all the way back to the action. Manual says it should be free over the whole length of the barrel. Doesn't give you permission to do some sanding though if it doesn't. Anyone have some experience to share on their synthetic stock Tikka and free floating? If it ain't broke don't fix it?

My Synthetic Tikka's weren't floated, but the wood stocked one was. They all shot MOA or better, with federal cheapies.

I have a few .308's and I've been shooting them at 300yds, and can't see why it wouldn't take game at that range.

 

[jcbruno]

i currently sold my 7mm rem mag and 30-06 and now have a tikka in 270 and a cz full stock in 308 on the way 270 for the grain fields and 308 for the bush either will kill with ease most anything on this continent

 

[jcbruno]

"...says elk need 250 grains..." Nonsense. The .270 has been killing elk with 130 and 140 grain bullets for eons. You don't need a magnum for anything in North America.

I totally agree ,the big magnums have there use and in proper hands work well, i cant help but chuckle a little when a inexperienced hunter goes into the gun store and i over here him saying i need the 300 or 338 mag i guess they think if you have the most powerful gun and the biggest truck you are a hunter to be awed at

 

[Ganderite]

Both calibers are more than enough for Eastern deer (close range - 100 yrds max). For a deer - elk rifle I would buy a 35 Whelen. I load 38 Spl pistol bullets in mine for cheap plinking.

 

[.Ben]

thats a touch choice i think the .270 would be a bit btter at the longer range but i dont think you would really noatice a difference in the feild

 

[jessie01]

I shoot both, I've shot elk, moose and deer at 200+and they both have done the job, with the 270 being a bit stronger at distance. Remember the most important part is where the bullet goes after it leaves the barrel.