.280 rem

Kevan · Jan 17, 2017

Slamfire said:
Or pull out all the stops and get a 7mm RUM or 28 Nosler: 175gr @ 3200 fps.

I went with the 28 and love it , the only problem is finding the slow powders to feed it.
Otherwise it is exceedingly accurate and more than enough zap for all my hunting needs..

Pat Brennan · Jan 18, 2017

todbartell said:

With the right loads the 280 hardly lags behind the 7mm Rem Mag by very much.

280 Rem 700 22.5” barrel

140gr Barnes TSX @ 3.267”

Alliant Reloader 26 / F210M
59.6 - 2956
60.3 -2974
60.9 - 2959
61.6 -3001
62.2 - 3040
62.9 - 3094
63.5 - 3141
64.2 - 3152
64.9 – 3218

Apples to apples the 280 vs 7mm Rem Mag in 24" barrels. 85 fps difference with about 8grs powder

Code:

Cartridge          : .280 Rem
Bullet             : .284, 160, Nosler PART SP 16327
Useable Case Capaci: 64.677 grain H2O = 4.199 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.340 inch = 84.84 mm
Barrel Length      : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 62000 psi, or 427 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 103 %
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

22 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 85%. These powders have been skipped.
Powder type          Filling/Loading Ratio  Charge    Charge   Vel. Prop.Burnt P max  P muzz  B_Time
                                      %     Grains    Gramm   fps     %       psi     psi    ms
---------------------------------  -----------------------------------------------------------------
Alliant RL26                       100.6     64.5     4.18    3047   100.0    62000   12631   1.167  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 7828ssc                        101.9     62.4     4.04    3006    98.7    62000   12695   1.150  ! Near Maximum !
AA MagPro                          103.0     65.3     4.23    2992    97.0    60926   13142   1.176  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant RL22                       103.0     62.1     4.02    2981    99.4    61087   12572   1.174  ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Magnum                     103.0     66.9     4.33    2968    99.7    61322   12043   1.163  ! Near Maximum !

Code:

Cartridge          : 7 mm Rem Mag
Bullet             : .284, 160, Nosler PART SP 16327
Useable Case Capaci: 77.718 grain H2O = 5.046 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.290 inch = 83.57 mm
Barrel Length      : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 62000 psi, or 427 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 103 %
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

34 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 85%. These powders have been skipped.
Powder type          Filling/Loading Ratio  Charge    Charge   Vel. Prop.Burnt P max  P muzz  B_Time
                                      %     Grains    Gramm   fps     %       psi     psi    ms
---------------------------------  -----------------------------------------------------------------
Alliant RL26                        93.5     72.0     4.67    3097   100.0    62000   13886   1.202  ! Near Maximum !
AA MagPro                           96.8     73.8     4.78    3088    98.5    62000   14787   1.193  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 7828ssc                         95.5     70.3     4.55    3087    99.6    62000   14181   1.174  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 7828                           101.0     70.3     4.55    3087    99.6    62000   14181   1.174  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant RL25                       102.3     72.9     4.72    3087   100.0    62000   13548   1.184  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant RL22                        96.8     70.1     4.54    3067    99.9    62000   13974   1.191  ! Near Maximum !

Where the 7 Rem mag does shine over the 280 is with heavier bullets. Compare realistic speeds of 160s or 175s and you will see perhaps 200 fps difference. Whether that is significant enough or not is a personal decision.

Hitzy · Jan 18, 2017

todbartell said:

With the right loads the 280 hardly lags behind the 7mm Rem Mag by very much.

280 Rem 700 22.5” barrel

140gr Barnes TSX @ 3.267”

Alliant Reloader 26 / F210M
59.6 - 2956
60.3 -2974
60.9 - 2959
61.6 -3001
62.2 - 3040
62.9 - 3094
63.5 - 3141
64.2 - 3152
64.9 – 3218

Apples to apples the 280 vs 7mm Rem Mag in 24" barrels. 85 fps difference with about 8grs powder

Code:

Cartridge          : .280 Rem
Bullet             : .284, 160, Nosler PART SP 16327
Useable Case Capaci: 64.677 grain H2O = 4.199 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.340 inch = 84.84 mm
Barrel Length      : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 62000 psi, or 427 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 103 %
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

22 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 85%. These powders have been skipped.
Powder type          Filling/Loading Ratio  Charge    Charge   Vel. Prop.Burnt P max  P muzz  B_Time
                                      %     Grains    Gramm   fps     %       psi     psi    ms
---------------------------------  -----------------------------------------------------------------
Alliant RL26                       100.6     64.5     4.18    3047   100.0    62000   12631   1.167  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 7828ssc                        101.9     62.4     4.04    3006    98.7    62000   12695   1.150  ! Near Maximum !
AA MagPro                          103.0     65.3     4.23    2992    97.0    60926   13142   1.176  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant RL22                       103.0     62.1     4.02    2981    99.4    61087   12572   1.174  ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Magnum                     103.0     66.9     4.33    2968    99.7    61322   12043   1.163  ! Near Maximum !

Code:

Cartridge          : 7 mm Rem Mag
Bullet             : .284, 160, Nosler PART SP 16327
Useable Case Capaci: 77.718 grain H2O = 5.046 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.290 inch = 83.57 mm
Barrel Length      : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 62000 psi, or 427 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 103 %
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

34 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 85%. These powders have been skipped.
Powder type          Filling/Loading Ratio  Charge    Charge   Vel. Prop.Burnt P max  P muzz  B_Time
                                      %     Grains    Gramm   fps     %       psi     psi    ms
---------------------------------  -----------------------------------------------------------------
Alliant RL26                        93.5     72.0     4.67    3097   100.0    62000   13886   1.202  ! Near Maximum !
AA MagPro                           96.8     73.8     4.78    3088    98.5    62000   14787   1.193  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 7828ssc                         95.5     70.3     4.55    3087    99.6    62000   14181   1.174  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 7828                           101.0     70.3     4.55    3087    99.6    62000   14181   1.174  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant RL25                       102.3     72.9     4.72    3087   100.0    62000   13548   1.184  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant RL22                        96.8     70.1     4.54    3067    99.9    62000   13974   1.191  ! Near Maximum !

Don't put too much faith in that software... Haven't found it to match real world results very often.

BigUglyMan · Jan 18, 2017

Slamfire said:
Heavier bullets up to 175gr for a 7mm.

That's really too much bullet in a 7mm given the times we live in with respect to bullet construction. Going over 160 makes little sense anymore, much like going over 180 in a 30 caliber. TSX, GMX, E-Tip, Partition, A-Frame...all have changed the playing field with respect to requisite bullet weight in a given caliber.

hoytcanon · Jan 18, 2017

BigUglyMan said:
That's really too much bullet in a 7mm given the times we live in with respect to bullet construction. Going over 160 makes little sense anymore, much like going over 180 in a 30 caliber. TSX, GMX, E-Tip, Partition, A-Frame...all have changed the playing field with respect to requisite bullet weight in a given caliber.

I agree, except for my 7X64, which to harvest brass, I purchased 20 boxes of S&B 173 grain Torpedo bullets... only to be pleasantly surprised by their performance and trajectory... but I reload the once-fired brass with Hornady 154 grain Spitzer's. I think the 7mm mags do well with the 160's... but for the lower velocity 7mm's I like the 139-154 grain bullets.

BigUglyMan · Jan 18, 2017

hoytcanon said:
I agree, except for my 7X64, which to harvest brass, I purchased 20 boxes of S&B 173 grain Torpedo bullets... only to be pleasantly surprised by their performance and trajectory... but I reload the once-fired brass with Hornady 154 grain Spitzer's. I think the 7mm mags do well with the 160's... but for the lower velocity 7mm's I like the 139-154 grain bullets.

Yup. It's not 1892 anymore. Unless you're face-shooting Dumbo there's little call for a 175 in a 7mm Mauser. Unless that's the only bullet that shoots worth a damn in the rifle.

Slamfire · Jan 18, 2017

For Moose or Elk, 175gr is preferred in my Zastava 7x57 carbine. Higher b.c. and s.d. More energy, momentum and penetration compared to 140gr. Seems with the 20" barrel 140gr MV is limited to about 2750 fps. Both bullet weights shoot quite accurately.

This rifle has fine balance and handling characteristics.

Sierra GameKing SBT 175gr vs. 140gr ballistics:

Hitzy · Jan 18, 2017

I like heavy for caliber bullets in my non-magnums, and light to medium tough bullets for the magnums...

MiG25 · Jan 18, 2017

todbartell said:
Great cartridge. But look at the 270 Winchester too, it makes more sense if you're shooting factory ammo and factory rifle selection is much better. or 7mm Rem Mag

What he said, excellent if you reload, exercise in frustration if you don't.

ruby76 · Jan 18, 2017

I've shot a .280 ackley improved for quite some time now. Best thing to do is read up on it yourself, there is tonnes of info all over the web on it, the majority of info highly praising it. Great choice for reloading and bottom line it is just behind the 7mm mag in velocity and a great all around caliber. You could always stick with the standard .280 for a while then decide to rechamber it to the AI later on.

madashell · Jan 18, 2017

If I were selling off a bunch of rifles to go with ONE rifle ..... the last thing I'd do is choose an uncommon cartridge.

CamV said:
I've been thinking about selling off some rifles and going with one rifle instead. What are your thoughts on .280 rem? Why should(n't) I go with it?
Is this the excuse I need to start reloading?
Any thoughts from you guys that own or have owned one?
What are the current offerings of .280?
What would you recommend and why?
Anything to stay away from?

I would be using it on coyotes wolves black bear possibly mule deer whitetails and even moose. Also I'd like to become more proficient in the long range target game
Again any reason why not?
Thoughts?

todbartell · Jan 18, 2017

Hitzy said:
Don't put too much faith in that software... Haven't found it to match real world results very often.

I've compared hundreds of chronographed, and doppler radar'd loads to QL and if the inputs are correct, the results are typically within 25-50 fps of each other. Close enough to prove its effectiveness to me

todbartell · Jan 18, 2017

Pat Brennan said:
Where the 7 Rem mag does shine over the 280 is with heavier bullets. Compare realistic speeds of 160s or 175s and you will see perhaps 200 fps difference

Code:

Cartridge          : .280 Rem
Bullet             : .284, 175, Nosler PART SP 35645
Useable Case Capaci: 63.240 grain H2O = 4.106 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.340 inch = 84.84 mm
Barrel Length      : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 62000 psi, or 427 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 103 %
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

25 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 85%. These powders have been skipped.
Powder type          Filling/Loading Ratio  Charge    Charge   Vel. Prop.Burnt P max  P muzz  B_Time
                                      %     Grains    Gramm   fps     %       psi     psi    ms
---------------------------------  -----------------------------------------------------------------
Alliant RL26                        98.9     62.0     4.02    2910   100.0    62000   12244   1.217  ! Near Maximum !
AA MagPro                          101.9     63.2     4.09    2884    98.0    62000   12939   1.214  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 7828ssc                        100.4     60.1     3.90    2880    99.3    62000   12395   1.197  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant RL22                       101.9     60.0     3.89    2866    99.8    62000   12275   1.214  ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Magnum                     101.8     64.6     4.19    2852   100.0    62000   11734   1.206  ! Near Maximum !

Code:

Cartridge          : 7 mm Rem Mag
Bullet             : .284, 175, Nosler PART SP 35645
Useable Case Capaci: 76.275 grain H2O = 4.952 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.290 inch = 83.57 mm
Barrel Length      : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 62000 psi, or 427 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 103 %
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

34 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 85%. These powders have been skipped.
Powder type          Filling/Loading Ratio  Charge    Charge   Vel. Prop.Burnt P max  P muzz  B_Time
                                      %     Grains    Gramm   fps     %       psi     psi    ms
---------------------------------  -----------------------------------------------------------------
AA MagPro                           95.3     71.2     4.62    2965    99.1    62000   14530   1.239  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant RL26                        91.9     69.5     4.50    2964   100.0    62000   13533   1.251  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 7828ssc                         94.0     67.9     4.40    2959    99.9    62000   13863   1.222  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 7828                            99.3     67.9     4.40    2959    99.9    62000   13863   1.222  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant RL25                       100.6     70.3     4.56    2954   100.0    62000   13215   1.233  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant RL22                        95.3     67.7     4.39    2940   100.0    62000   13631   1.238  ! Near Maximum !

averages - 2880 fps vs 2956 fps (76 fps) with 175gr

And real world Doppler radar results with 180gr Bergers in a 22.5" 280 Rem, with Reloader 26

280 Rem 700 22.5”

180gr Berger Hybrid @ 3.5”

RELOADER 26 :
60.7 2864 fps
60.0 2814 fps
59.4 2766 fps
58.8 2742 fps
58.2 2724 fps

That is 100 fps more than I could acheive with H4831sc

todbartell · Jan 18, 2017

Pat Brennan said:
Where the 7 Rem mag does shine over the 280 is with heavier bullets. Compare realistic speeds of 160s or 175s and you will see perhaps 200 fps difference. Whether that is significant enough or not is a personal decision.

200-400fps would likely come when comparing semi/pump action 22" 280 loads to 26" 7RM loads, when using 'classic' powders in the 280 like IMR 4350 or IMR 4831 and 'new' powders in the 7RM like RL22 or RL25

Code:

Cartridge          : .280 Rem.
Bullet             : .284, 175, Nosler PART SP 35645
Useable Case Capaci: 58.781 grain H2O = 3.817 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.330 inch = 84.58 mm
Barrel Length      : 22.0 inch = 558.8 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 57740 psi, or 398 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 103 %
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

25 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 85%. These powders have been skipped.
Powder type          Filling/Loading Ratio  Charge    Charge   Vel. Prop.Burnt P max  P muzz  B_Time
                                      %     Grains    Gramm   fps     %       psi     psi    ms
---------------------------------  -----------------------------------------------------------------
IMR 4831                            98.6     51.2     3.31    2632   100.0    57740   11054   1.209  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4350                            94.4     50.9     3.30    2613    99.3    57740   11155   1.192  ! Near Maximum !

Code:

Cartridge          : 7 mm Rem Mag
Bullet             : .284, 175, Nosler PART SP 35645
Useable Case Capaci: 76.281 grain H2O = 4.953 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.290 inch = 83.57 mm
Barrel Length      : 26.0 inch = 660.4 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 62000 psi, or 427 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 103 %
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

34 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 85%. These powders have been skipped.
Powder type          Filling/Loading Ratio  Charge    Charge   Vel. Prop.Burnt P max  P muzz  B_Time
                                      %     Grains    Gramm   fps     %       psi     psi    ms
---------------------------------  -----------------------------------------------------------------
IMR 7828ssc                         94.0     67.9     4.40    3019   100.0    62000   12574   1.278  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant RL25                       100.6     70.3     4.56    3011   100.0    62000   11985   1.289  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant RL22                        95.3     67.7     4.39    2999   100.0    62000   12365   1.294  ! Near Maximum !

BCBRAD · Jan 19, 2017

^^^ QL is very accurate given exact inputs and analysis of the data.

Doppler radar, powder measured to 0.02 grains, volumes to 0.02 gr of water, measurements to 0.001".

Knowledge on acertaining powder burn rates, OCW and OBT theories employed will get the best ammo possible.

todbartell · Jan 19, 2017

Whatever Brad. Quickload is VOODOO and you know it haha

BCBRAD · Jan 19, 2017

todbartell said:
Whatever Brad. Quickload is VOODOO and you know it haha

Yup, got a voodoo doll full of pins, lol

cdn shooter · Jan 19, 2017

.02gr of powder? Why?

I don't use QL, but I've done enough real world load testing to know that level of accuracy is not needed.

Hitzy · Jan 19, 2017

The quickload data sure doesn't match up well with Alliant published Reloader 26 numbers. No 280 data for it, but there is 270Win which is a 65,000psi max so they even out more or less.
Can you reach the Quickload velocity? Sure, but not without going over max pressures.

270

BCBRAD · Jan 19, 2017

0.02 grains if you want to hit the OBT exactly

Hitzy, the load QL produces will not be generic to any or all rifles, QL operated properly will be exact to your rifle.

QL is not plug and play, you have to apply principles of internal ballistics and theories that surround that.

Operated correctly, there are a lot more 0.5 moa rifles out there than one would have thought.

.280 rem

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