When you say field grade O/u, do you mean Ithaca SKB 500s and up? Or other makes?
2nd try Lightweight 20ga SxS?
- Thread starter huntingfish
- Start date
When you say field grade O/u, do you mean Ithaca SKB 500s and up? Or other makes?
Did someone mention Charles Daly?
I finally joined the 20 gauge crowd having purchased this little lightweight Charles Daly model 275 dating from about 1906. Almost exactly what is on the OP's wish list. Needs a little work but here are a couple of teasers. They don't make Charles Daly's like this any more.
That is a gorgeous shotgun, Canvasback. Would love to see the rest of the gun.
Other makes - Citori, old Win 101, Superposed, etc.
I did get it from clay at prophet river. I dont have an exact weight but it balances and points well. It has 26" barrels. The wrist is thick. Thicker than some of my 12ga straight english stocks but it is comfortable. The receiver is scaled well for the 20ga. Over all i really like it. Ive shot steel waterfowl loads out of it and use it for bunny hunting and itll see field time for turkeys this spring. I can crush skeet targets well with it to
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Brutus
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Did someone mention Charles Daly?
I finally joined the 20 gauge crowd having purchased this little lightweight Charles Daly model 275 dating from about 1906. Almost exactly what is on the OP's wish list. Needs a little work but here are a couple of teasers. They don't make Charles Daly's like this any more.
Very nice bangstick right here.
Unfortunately my Charles Daly is a damascus drilling.
At little heavy ten and a half pounds unloaded.
Forgive me Brutus, have we seen pics of it on here before? If not please post in Show us your SxS sticky thread. All early Charles Daly (pre WWI) are incredible guns.
And Bill, that was just a teaser. You will have to wait for a full unveiling later in the year. She has to be ready for her close-up (I've already used that line once, LOL)
I would agree with you, except perhaps for the Superposed 20s. Although I don't have an SKB 500 now, I did and i loved the way it felt in the hands.....so light and nimble. A buddy wanted to buy it to give to his son. At least I still know where it is.
Just realized I mis-read your post.
I find in general that SxS of equivalent barrel length, gauge and weight tend to feel more light and lively than their O/U counterparts. I suspect that is why I have 15 or 16 SxS in the safe and 2 O/U.
You have a common problem my friend, champagne taste and a beer budget. Simply put, decent quality side by sides cost more to make and sell in much smaller volumes than over/unders. It also is much more difficult and expensive to make a lightweight version than a heavier one. Actions must be more petite while still being robust which requires careful design, choice of materials and precise assembly. To make a shotgun lighter while staying in balance the barrels need to be lighter. This normally means thinner which requires stronger (more expensive) material which in turn requires more careful attention to tolerances during manufacture. Wood weight must be appropriate to the intended balance and the whole gun is very difficult to balance while keeping weight down, the lighter the gun the more difficult this becomes. Many of these tasks need to have the personal touch of experienced human hands. Yes, you can buy a clumsy overweight small bore side by side that feels like a 2x4, swings like a fence post, shoots both barrels to different points of impact and quickly loosens up. There is always a market for inexpensive guns like this and they sell quite well because many buyers don't know the difference, won't shoot it more than a box or two per year anyway, and they let their pocketbook rule rather than the desire for quality.
As mentioned, on the used market the Ithaca/SKB meets your specifications, some Spanish guns from well known makers, some older lesser known Italian makers, an English 20 if you can find one, could be just what your heart desires. The Browning BSS and the Winchester 23 are fine guns but heavy and well over your budget. Sorry, you need to start saving because most of these will come in well above your $1000 limit ( beer budget)
So what's available new? Many Turkish guns such as the CZ, Huglu Churchill and others, while being over your weight limit as a 20 are very trim and lightweight as a 28. And don't whine about the price of ammo, maybe a difference of a cup of coffee between 20 and 28. Sub $3000 the FAIR ISIDE can be had in less ornate trim for well under $3000, very light and well balanced, reliable and can be had with different barrel lengths, fixed or removable chokes, single or double triggers. Start saving now, patience is a virtue.
As mentioned, on the used market the Ithaca/SKB meets your specifications, some Spanish guns from well known makers, some older lesser known Italian makers, an English 20 if you can find one, could be just what your heart desires. The Browning BSS and the Winchester 23 are fine guns but heavy and well over your budget. Sorry, you need to start saving because most of these will come in well above your $1000 limit ( beer budget)
So what's available new? Many Turkish guns such as the CZ, Huglu Churchill and others, while being over your weight limit as a 20 are very trim and lightweight as a 28. And don't whine about the price of ammo, maybe a difference of a cup of coffee between 20 and 28. Sub $3000 the FAIR ISIDE can be had in less ornate trim for well under $3000, very light and well balanced, reliable and can be had with different barrel lengths, fixed or removable chokes, single or double triggers. Start saving now, patience is a virtue.
huntingfish
CGN frequent flyer
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- Quebec City
I hate it when people are right. ;-p
Not knowing a lot about SxS, I was thinking that there might be some specific model that might meet all the reqs without breaking the bank too much.
So far, the only one that comes close is the Churchill. In 20ga, it is under 6lbs (5.6lbs I believe).
Brutus
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Uhm. I reposted it SxS picture thread bottom of page Edit: 245 friend. One crappy photo sorry!
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Well - You should know what type of crowd you are dealing with here, by now.
If you are only going to use it for hunting, and are likely to shoot less than half a box of shells a year ground-swatting partridge, buy a gun with the most eye appeal you can get for your budget. Fit, balance, long-term mechanical integrity, and barrel regulation are minor considerations given your intended use. One thing about the Turkish guns, they have nice wood. Ask the dealer to pick one with the nicest wood, and away you go...
If you are concerned about boosting the Turkish economy excessively, you can consider a Stoeger or a Boito (same gun, I believe). Boito are distributed by Bell Outdoors here in Canada, see their website. A buddy bought one in 28 g, has shot it quite a bit at the club, looks half decent, for somewhere around 550$.
If you are only going to use it for hunting, and are likely to shoot less than half a box of shells a year ground-swatting partridge, buy a gun with the most eye appeal you can get for your budget. Fit, balance, long-term mechanical integrity, and barrel regulation are minor considerations given your intended use. One thing about the Turkish guns, they have nice wood. Ask the dealer to pick one with the nicest wood, and away you go...If you are concerned about boosting the Turkish economy excessively, you can consider a Stoeger or a Boito (same gun, I believe). Boito are distributed by Bell Outdoors here in Canada, see their website. A buddy bought one in 28 g, has shot it quite a bit at the club, looks half decent, for somewhere around 550$.
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huntingfish
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Quebec City
The Stoeger I've seen were pretty clunky. When someone else spoke about swinging a 2x4 around, a picture of a Stoeger came to mind ;-)
Brutus
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Full agreement.
I once owned a Stoeger SxS can't say I miss it.
The only shotgun I ever seen stayed disassembled was a friend's Stoeger O/U.
Broke it's firing pins and he just gave up on it.
Years later when he purchased a CZ O/U and I convinced him to purchase a pair of snap caps.
I would prefer any Baikal to any Stoeger.
Hmmm - The Boito 28 g that my buddy has is quite nice, and he has shot several thousand rounds through it. I shot it at the club, and it compared reasonably well to my 28 g Beretta. Perhaps they are not the same gun as the Stoeger? Boito do appear to make a single trigger light weight coach gun, which would offset the tendency to be barrel heavy.
I like Baikals, but with the embargo happening, the chances of getting a 20 g, new or used, are slim.
I like Baikals, but with the embargo happening, the chances of getting a 20 g, new or used, are slim.
Brybenn, that certainly isn't a bad weight for a 26" 20, it's certainly reasonable and better than many. By comparison most 28" Browning Superposeds check in at about 6 lb 4 oz and Beretta 28's with 28" tubes around the same with their 20's being a few ounces heavier and the SKB Ithacas being in the same weight class. FAIR Iside models are lighter, Beretta sidexsides are heavier ( on the wallet as well). Generally boxlocks and trigger plate locks are lightest, sidelocks and sideplated guns heavier. English 20's usually come in well under 6 pounds but with a very heavy price tag. Inexpensive utility guns like Boito, etc are just that, utility guns made to be cheap, strong and reliable, they make no effort or claim to be anything else, that is their market.
I agree and as much as id love a light weight british 20ga sxs i went with the huglu as its steel rated modern with removable chokes which allows me to use it for ducks in the marsh and creeks and then switch chokes to be used for upland or turkey hunting while being light enough to carry long distances and cheap enough im not afraid to use it as intended which was strictly for a hunting gun. It does see time on the skeet field as do all my hunting guns. Clay at prophet river has done a great job bringing in reliable huglu guns for modest money. If a hunting gun is the primary use i highly recommend the huglu as the best value in the sxs market for the money. Sure theyre no aya #2 but they can be dressed up in the higher grades if ones pockets are deep enough
huntingfish
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Quebec City
Well, with the budget market left almost completely ignored by SxS makers, they have indeed found a niche market.
The SxS and O/U markets appear to have entirely different drivers. It amazes me that the base level Beretta O/U is 2.7K, while the similar Beretta SxS is in the order of 4.5K. Perhaps it has something to do with the set-up costs for the machinery and the production volumes, who knows? Ruger faced the same parameters with their Red Label O/U vs their Gold Label SxS. For the average shotgun enthusiast, including myself, the differential makes it difficult to justify a SxS. In my case, I've gotten used to the sight picture on O/U's, so its O/U's for me.
Its encouraging to see the entry of the Turkish guns into the market, there certainly is room for a decent SxS in the 1K to 1.5K range, particularly if the single trigger mechanism holds up. Strangely, the price differential described above does not seem to exist with Turkish offerings.
huntingfish
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Quebec City
I did spend some time on huglu's website yesterday and you have no idea how much I would of loved that 200 mini english stocked sxs to be offered in 20ga and 0.5lbs lighter lol. It looks awesome.
I also did a lot of browsing on Yildiz's website, and aside from an english stock, there's something to be done with an A5 E: lightweight, ejectors, 20ga, etc. I just couldn't find any Canadian sources (to check the prices).
David
