friend of mine told me for hunting canada duck,I'd better go with 3.5" BB otherwise the penetration of steel shots could be the problem in some cases. but economically 3.5" BB is much expensive than 3" BB,I wonder if there is big difference between these two kinda shell?
3" BB enough for all waterfowl?
- Thread starter p226
- Start date
p226 said:
Here's a tip I got from a guy that may interest you...
Your problem with steel is the same problem everyone else has. If you
listen to me, you'll do 100% better with ducks. First off, lead kills
with impact because it has weight. Steel does not have weight, but
people try to make-up for this by buying larger size bb (bbb, t's, etc)
thinking the larger the diameter the harder it will hit. Problem is
this, steel was NEVER meant to kill by weight. Steel kills with
pattern. When you use large steel bb to make-up for it's lack in
weight, you are shooting with a horrible pattern. That's why you get
broken wings and wounded ducks because the duck gets hit with a bb here
and a bb there. If you use steel shot in size 4's and even 6's you will
get a thick pattern that hits the duck with many bb's in the head and
neck. The rest of the body remains free of bbs because the #4 and #6
sizes are to lite to penatrate the feathers and fat. Take an afternoon
with sevral different size steel shotshells (2's,4's, 6's, bb, bbb,
T's), and shoot each one into a 30" circle on paper at 20yards. You
will see exactly what I'm talking about. I've told this to soo many
duck hunters., and some say I should go onto a hunting show to explain
it on t.v. And I would do it if I knew how. There's more to
know....steel travels very fast in the loads today. Some people over
leed the duck. At 10 to 15 yards as a duck flys over the decoys as he's
making a pass at a casual flight speed, all you really need to do is
place the beed just in front of his bill and follow your swing through
(matching the flieght speed of the duck as you follow through is vitally
important), and you tap the trigger. Also, place yourself in a position
where your back is at the wind if it is windy. If you can not do this,
then have the wind come at you from left or right, and adjust your leed
to componsate. NEVER shoot into the wind with steel (unless at close
range), because a strong wind against your pattern will screw it all up
for sure, because steel has not the weight to buck the wind. If you're
hunting the big waters out in the lake, get your decoys around your
boat, set holes in the decoys so a flock of ducks has a spot to land.
If not, the ducks will land outside your decoys and that will be too far
of a shot on windy lake days for steel. Some guys set their decoy
pattern in a shape of a fish hook, and place their boat at the bottom of
the hook. I mostly stay in the marshes. Either way, remember that
ducks land against the wind. If you have a nice hole in the decoys as
the ducks make their pass around you, and get into the wind, they will
go for that hole everytime. If you set decoys right, you don't really
need a to call them at all. I hope this will help you out. Don't waste
your money on Bismonth, you don't need it. Go down to a 2 3/4", 1 1/4
oz load number 4's. Use a full choke. Pattern this at 20 yards on a 30
circles (the center 15 inches of it is the actuall kill zone), and you
will see the light, my friend. I have many photos of shotguns I have
patterned, and it's all the same.
Have a great day, *****, and remember..if we hit every duck we shot at,
we would be spending too much time pluking feathers instead of enjoying
the hunt, so miss'n is a bless'n once in a while...ha-ha-ha!.
If you're looking for a do everything load, I'd go with the Kent Fasteel #1s in 3 inch. BBs don't have the pattern density for ducks, I've found, and can be too inconsistent. They'll put the birds down, but I've seen several birds fly on after being centred in the pattern. (I could tell I didn't miss because they were low over the water)
The 1s will do well for decoying geese too - I shot 8 big canadas in 2 hours a couple of years back without losing one with that load. Only one was a gliding cripple, and he was dead when I found him.
If the geese aren't decoying well though, you could switch to BB.
The 1s will do well for decoying geese too - I shot 8 big canadas in 2 hours a couple of years back without losing one with that load. Only one was a gliding cripple, and he was dead when I found him.
If the geese aren't decoying well though, you could switch to BB.
Speed Kills
While patterning your gun is important, many hunters never get around to doing it. Mostly because they don't have any where to do it. I personally prefer number 3 shot for ducks that I have shot at in recent years in an improved cylinder choke or a modified. Do not think that I would recommend using a full choke as it can be bulged in time using steel ammo. I also would not recommend using 1 1/4oz loads as they do not kill as effectivly as the 1 1/8oz loads travelling in excess of 1500 fps.
Most oufitters here in Alberta order 3 inch loads in 2 for ducks and BB for geese, wether in be Winchester or Kent brand. FS
While patterning your gun is important, many hunters never get around to doing it. Mostly because they don't have any where to do it. I personally prefer number 3 shot for ducks that I have shot at in recent years in an improved cylinder choke or a modified. Do not think that I would recommend using a full choke as it can be bulged in time using steel ammo. I also would not recommend using 1 1/4oz loads as they do not kill as effectivly as the 1 1/8oz loads travelling in excess of 1500 fps.
Most oufitters here in Alberta order 3 inch loads in 2 for ducks and BB for geese, wether in be Winchester or Kent brand. FS
Great read guys! It seems to me that duck hunters are finally adjusting to steel...
I remember when I first had to use steel, I went with #2's and BB for ducks... These "older" steel shells had velocities somewhere around 1300feet per second... I found ALOT of my "recovered" ducks had...
(1) broken wing(s)
(2) pellets COMPLETELY through them... and only one or two pellet hits
(3) or died like lightening had hit them!!! Like a "brain" hit for example...
All of these factors combined with a loss ratio that used to make me sick... In comparison, with my good old LEAD #6, I rarely lost a duck and after being FORCED to switch to steel, I was now experiencing a loss rate of somewhere around 25 to 50%!!!
Anyhow... I complained LOUDLY to Ducks Unlimited Canada, saying that they were trading lead poisoned ducks for steel crippled ones... (based on my loss rate...) Needless to say, it changed nothing...
Jump ahead several years... And the current manufacture of 1550fps STEEL shells...
At this point, I sat down, calculated the energy of my good old #6 LEAD shells, that had worked so well in the past... And then went to work calculating the energy of the 1550 feet per second STEEL shells...
WELL... I found out a couple things...
First... STEEL shells, going 1550fps in #4 pellet size, actually hit with SLIGHTLY MORE energy at 30 meters than my beloved and now illegal to use, LEAD #6 did!!!
Second... STEEL shells carry MORE pellets because...
1) steel is 30% lighter than lead, therefore an ounce of steel has about 30% MORE pellets in it, and...
2) there is no need for a shot "wad" to protect the steel from deformation like in a lead shell... and...
Because the steel is 30% lighter, an increase in the speed of the pellets in a steel shell, of about 30%, i.e. going from 1300 feet per second to 1550 feet per second means that...
There is no "handi-capping" of the waterfowl hunter who HAS to use steel...
This all brings us to the important fact that... Pattern density is just as important as energy on target... Without BOTH, you don't have a DEAD DUCK... Just look back at what I said earlier... that the ducks I was initially recovering that I had shot with lower velocity steel in a larger pellet size like BB... had very few "hits" and only came down because of what I will call the "MAJIC OR GOLDEN BB!!!"
To this day, I try to educate duck hunters, who complain about the loss of ducks, to these FACTS... They almost always are using lower velocity steel shells and a very large pellet size... This allows the ducks to "swim" through the shotgun pattern AND the hits they get on target either mean a dead duck OR a wounded duck that fly's way to die in another swamp...
So, after all this blabbing, duck hunters have to be aware of the fact that...
(1) Steel shells kill because of an increase in their SPEED by 30%, which makes up for steel's 30% loss in mass... (when compared to lead) Remember Force = Mass x Accelleration from high school...
(2) Pattern density IS critical. Using #4 steel for ducks will mean that you can actually hit the ducks with a PATTERN of steel and it WILL kill them effectively!!!
Things I have learned...
(1) use only 1550 fps steel or faster if available
(2) you don't need BBB's to kill ducks, #3 or #4 steel works fine
(3) Improved cylinder patterns like modified when using steel
(4) BEAVER PONDS ROCK!!! Try it, you'll never go back to the river!!!
Good luck this year!
Cheers
Jay
I remember when I first had to use steel, I went with #2's and BB for ducks... These "older" steel shells had velocities somewhere around 1300feet per second... I found ALOT of my "recovered" ducks had...
(1) broken wing(s)
(2) pellets COMPLETELY through them... and only one or two pellet hits
(3) or died like lightening had hit them!!! Like a "brain" hit for example...
All of these factors combined with a loss ratio that used to make me sick... In comparison, with my good old LEAD #6, I rarely lost a duck and after being FORCED to switch to steel, I was now experiencing a loss rate of somewhere around 25 to 50%!!!
Anyhow... I complained LOUDLY to Ducks Unlimited Canada, saying that they were trading lead poisoned ducks for steel crippled ones... (based on my loss rate...) Needless to say, it changed nothing...
Jump ahead several years... And the current manufacture of 1550fps STEEL shells...
At this point, I sat down, calculated the energy of my good old #6 LEAD shells, that had worked so well in the past... And then went to work calculating the energy of the 1550 feet per second STEEL shells...
WELL... I found out a couple things...
First... STEEL shells, going 1550fps in #4 pellet size, actually hit with SLIGHTLY MORE energy at 30 meters than my beloved and now illegal to use, LEAD #6 did!!!
Second... STEEL shells carry MORE pellets because...
1) steel is 30% lighter than lead, therefore an ounce of steel has about 30% MORE pellets in it, and...
2) there is no need for a shot "wad" to protect the steel from deformation like in a lead shell... and...
Because the steel is 30% lighter, an increase in the speed of the pellets in a steel shell, of about 30%, i.e. going from 1300 feet per second to 1550 feet per second means that...
There is no "handi-capping" of the waterfowl hunter who HAS to use steel...
This all brings us to the important fact that... Pattern density is just as important as energy on target... Without BOTH, you don't have a DEAD DUCK... Just look back at what I said earlier... that the ducks I was initially recovering that I had shot with lower velocity steel in a larger pellet size like BB... had very few "hits" and only came down because of what I will call the "MAJIC OR GOLDEN BB!!!"
To this day, I try to educate duck hunters, who complain about the loss of ducks, to these FACTS... They almost always are using lower velocity steel shells and a very large pellet size... This allows the ducks to "swim" through the shotgun pattern AND the hits they get on target either mean a dead duck OR a wounded duck that fly's way to die in another swamp...
So, after all this blabbing, duck hunters have to be aware of the fact that...
(1) Steel shells kill because of an increase in their SPEED by 30%, which makes up for steel's 30% loss in mass... (when compared to lead) Remember Force = Mass x Accelleration from high school...
(2) Pattern density IS critical. Using #4 steel for ducks will mean that you can actually hit the ducks with a PATTERN of steel and it WILL kill them effectively!!!
Things I have learned...
(1) use only 1550 fps steel or faster if available
(2) you don't need BBB's to kill ducks, #3 or #4 steel works fine
(3) Improved cylinder patterns like modified when using steel
(4) BEAVER PONDS ROCK!!! Try it, you'll never go back to the river!!!
Good luck this year!
Cheers
Jay
One more important note: NO SKY BUSTING know your limits. Just like the bow-hunter in the tree-stand knows his range limits, it is extremely important for the waterfowler to know his kill shot range. Understand what 30-40 yards is (actual) and not what 60-80 yards (assumed) seems to equal 30-40 yards.
NO SKYBUSTING
NO SKYBUSTING
tripod1 said:
WELL SAID!!!
That's the main reason I hunt beaver ponds, shots are under 30 meters and the ducks are so much less wary. I actually only use 4 or 5 decoys to!!!
And just to add... BB is "enough" for all waterfowl, BUT it is not the ideal shot size selection!!! Pick a shot size for what your hunting...
#4 for ducks...
BB or #2 for geese...
Cheers
Jay
I'm a # 2 - 3" 1550 fps for everything kinda guy (right now).
Another note for the shot set-up... I learned on geese that you can get limits faster (if that's the goal) and shoot triples if you plan your shots better. In the case of geese, my partner and I wait until the last goose is within range (say 30 m with 3" 1550's). when he crunches up in a ball, his buddies take off. His best friend is about the same distance away when he gets capped, and the same for his best friend. Two guys - six geese. keep your eyes open, sometimes it's like it's raining honkers (good story to that one)
Voila= tripple
(The only thing I could imagine to be close is called crystal meth)
Another note for the shot set-up... I learned on geese that you can get limits faster (if that's the goal) and shoot triples if you plan your shots better. In the case of geese, my partner and I wait until the last goose is within range (say 30 m with 3" 1550's). when he crunches up in a ball, his buddies take off. His best friend is about the same distance away when he gets capped, and the same for his best friend. Two guys - six geese. keep your eyes open, sometimes it's like it's raining honkers (good story to that one)
Voila= tripple
(The only thing I could imagine to be close is called crystal meth)
Well having tinkered with steel loads for more than a few seasons here's my observations.
I don't shoot shot larger than BB's for one simple reason I found that my shotgun does'nt pattren BB's in a modified tube but will in the IC tube. But shot sizes like 1's and B's will pattern in the Mod tube. Now the point to note her is I'm talking about my shotgun and only my shotgun and of course your experiences may be different but it also illustrates how inportant patterning is.
I persoanly reload 2-3/4" 1-1/8oz 2's @ 1475fps, as a duck load and have even taken numerous Canada's over decoys with this load no problem.
In 3" I load 1-1/4oz of B's @ 1475fps and this load simply crushes geese at any rasonable range (45ys+ or-).
The big secret to success with steel is to pattern the loads you think might suit your needs, and don't be suprised if you have more than a couple of part boxes of shell which your gun does'nt like, good to get a group of guys together and pattern a select number of loads hopefully something works for someone. I personnally look for 75% of all the pellets in a 30" circle at 40 yds. patterns as a measure for practical waterfowling, and that's from a minimum of 3 seperate pattern pages for a given load.
Good luck
I don't shoot shot larger than BB's for one simple reason I found that my shotgun does'nt pattren BB's in a modified tube but will in the IC tube. But shot sizes like 1's and B's will pattern in the Mod tube. Now the point to note her is I'm talking about my shotgun and only my shotgun and of course your experiences may be different but it also illustrates how inportant patterning is.
I persoanly reload 2-3/4" 1-1/8oz 2's @ 1475fps, as a duck load and have even taken numerous Canada's over decoys with this load no problem.
In 3" I load 1-1/4oz of B's @ 1475fps and this load simply crushes geese at any rasonable range (45ys+ or-).
The big secret to success with steel is to pattern the loads you think might suit your needs, and don't be suprised if you have more than a couple of part boxes of shell which your gun does'nt like, good to get a group of guys together and pattern a select number of loads hopefully something works for someone. I personnally look for 75% of all the pellets in a 30" circle at 40 yds. patterns as a measure for practical waterfowling, and that's from a minimum of 3 seperate pattern pages for a given load.
Good luck
- Location
- Hillbilly shack in the boonies
Yes 
so are 4's and 2's
so are 4's and 2's 
