3 shot grouping

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Hello all,

Finally got a chance to take my Norc M14 to the range for the sole purpose of doing a simple accuracy test. Using the cheapest steel case MFS .308 145 gr ammo that I could find and using rolled up blankets as a rest. (I forgot my bags at home D'oh!)

I shot 4 rounds, the first one I knew was off as soon as I pulled the trigger. Operator error is usually the case for my misses! :p

I then slowed down and fired 3 more. Using iron sights at 100 yards I figured that I'm just over 1 MOA for a completely bone stock untouched Norc. I'm pretty happy with that!

I think with some decent optics and better ammo I should be able to do better. I was having a bit of a hard time getting a clear sight picture and I've got good eyes!

From what I've heard and read about the M14, I think I should be pretty happy with 1.25 - 1.5 MOA for a completely stock Norc. What do you guys think?

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I tend to agree with others that 3 shots are not an accurate representation of what you are capable of. Try 10 shots and report back.

Still though, not bad for a norc
 
I thought about that myself. I don't know if today would have been a good day for that as it was SMOKING HOT outside and after 4 rounds my barrel was too hot to touch for any length of time. I was more curious to see what it would do. I will definitely be going back once I have better ammo and my shooting bags.

Onagoth said:
I tend to agree with others that 3 shots are not an accurate representation of what you are capable of. Try 10 shots and report back.

Still though, not bad for a norc
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I'm with the ten shot group club, I managed a 6" 3 shot 1,000 yard (yep, thousand) group, iron sights, with witnesses. Could I ever repeat it? Maybe, but it'd be waiting for the right combination of luck again. Ten shots, I'm shooting 18-20" groups when everything goes right at the same range, and 3MOA is what I would feel comfortable claiming with any certainty to repeat.

When one says their gun "shoots MOA" that means 1" groups at a hundred yards, every time out, with most being better than 1" as accuracy statements denote the average groups. It takes a lot of .75"s to make up for a single 2.5", etc, to be able to state a gun and shooter are "MOA". Almost any rifle and shooter can produce a bunch of amazing groups, with a whole lot more stinkers, everytime out. The true average includes the stinkers, just like if shooting in competition (no Mulligans). :)

This all said, good work you have some talent, keep at it. We have a military fullbore match we shoot at 100, 200, 300, 500, and 1,000 yards iron sighted, and it's for a ten shot string for exactly the reasons we've discussed. Ten shots evens out the luck, and produces the solid capabilities of shooter and rifle.

Now, aren't those some amazing sights on the M14? You can do things with them most scope shooters are startled by, like outshoot them with practice at 500+ yards. Keep at it!
 
Ardent said:
I'm with the ten shot group club, I managed a 6" 3 shot 1,000 yard (yep, thousand) group, iron sights, with witnesses. Could I ever repeat it? Maybe, but it'd be waiting for the right combination of luck again. Ten shots, I'm shooting 18-20" groups when everything goes right at the same range, and 3MOA is what I would feel comfortable claiming with any certainty to repeat.

When one says their gun "shoots MOA" that means 1" groups at a hundred yards, every time out, with most being better than 1" as accuracy statements denote the average groups. It takes a lot of .75"s to make up for a single 2.5", etc, to be able to state a gun and shooter are "MOA". Almost any rifle and shooter can produce a bunch of amazing groups, with a whole lot more stinkers, everytime out. The true average includes the stinkers, just like if shooting in competition (no Mulligans). :)

This all said, good work you have some talent, keep at it. We have a military fullbore match we shoot at 100, 200, 300, 500, and 1,000 yards iron sighted, and it's for a ten shot string for exactly the reasons we've discussed. Ten shots evens out the luck, and produces the solid capabilities of shooter and rifle.

Now, aren't those some amazing sights on the M14? You can do things with them most scope shooters are startled by, like outshoot them with practice at 500+ yards. Keep at it!
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I agree, 10 shots is better and I definitely need A LOT more practice before I could produce that kind of grouping consistently with 10 shot groups. I'm still quite happy with my 3 shot group today as I'm VERY NEW to this rifle! Best thing I did was to stick with the iron sights rather than put optics on it right away. It force me to learn proper shooting techniques and start developing consistency!
 
Sometimes in this forum I have this flashback, I'm in high school and some fat kid is laughing like a donkey because he thought something sounded retarded... Have fun with that line of humour chief, hope it brings you happiness. :cheers:

To the OP, join one of our matches some time if interested, PM me for details it's free.
 
Sounds like you might have a good one. That's a decent group but might be just lucky, shoot it some more and see. One 3 shot group isn't enough to tell you how accurate your rifle is.

OTOH, it's a norc M14 - not a target rifle. Don't get yourself worked up too much about determining the ultimate accuracy potential on a gun you bought to use as a fun plinker. Some people get their panties in a knot about every last tenth of an inch of group size and that is not what these rifles were designed for. Mechanical accuaracy and group size is interesting but hardly the only consideration on a rifle that was built to be shot offhand and fast under battle conditions. Shoot and have fun and don't let the group-junkies poop on your birthday cake.
 
I can't even see the paper clearly at 100 yards, everything is frigging blurry. Frankly I don't know how you guys shoot so well like this.
 
mikethebike said:
I can't even see the paper clearly at 100 yards, everything is frigging blurry. Frankly I don't know how you guys shoot so well like this.
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This was at 1,000 yards, five rounds there the fifth is higher and tougher to spot, with my Krieger barrelled Garand and iron sights (match). A lot of it is how you hold your sights. At extreme range, I don't set my sights for a center, or bullseye hold. I set them to be hitting center on the target board but visually my front sight has the target board sitting fully on top of it. Our target board there ends up appearing about the width of my 0.62" NM front sight, and it becomes pretty elementary from there. Rest it on top, center it, and control your breathing- wait for the right exhale and let one go. Repeat. :)

I am fortunate in the vision, still 20/10, it may get tougher as time goes on I suspect.

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"...my barrel was too hot to touch..." Shooting too fast. Still, imagine what it'd do with good ammo or handloaded ammo. Five rounds will give you a better idea of accuracy.
 
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jethunter said:
Sounds like you might have a good one. That's a decent group but might be just lucky, shoot it some more and see. One 3 shot group isn't enough to tell you how accurate your rifle is.

OTOH, it's a norc M14 - not a target rifle. Don't get yourself worked up too much about determining the ultimate accuracy potential on a gun you bought to use as a fun plinker. Some people get their panties in a knot about every last tenth of an inch of group size and that is not what these rifles were designed for. Mechanical accuaracy and group size is interesting but hardly the only consideration on a rifle that was built to be shot offhand and fast under battle conditions. Shoot and have fun and don't let the group-junkies poop on your birthday cake.
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Good post.
US National match specs call for 5 and 10 round groups. For a rifle to qualify or pass the grade, group size must be 3" or under for 5 rounds and 5" for 10 shot group. It's a battle rifle ;)
In my opinion, anything shooting under 3" at 100M is an M14 with some potential as a "target" or hunting rifle. Some of these can be dialed in tighter with some simple upgrades and tweaks followed by load development
Unfortunately for me, working on and shooting my rifles came to a screeching halt yesterday after I put my trigger finger outta comission for at least 2months. Tendons and fillet knives don't play well together :(
 
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