3 shot grouping
- Thread starter SVKB
- Start date
This was at 1,000 yards, five rounds there the fifth is higher and tougher to spot, with my Krieger barrelled Garand and iron sights (match). A lot of it is how you hold your sights. At extreme range, I don't set my sights for a center, or bullseye hold. I set them to be hitting center on the target board but visually my front sight has the target board sitting fully on top of it. Our target board there ends up appearing about the width of my 0.62" NM front sight, and it becomes pretty elementary from there. Rest it on top, center it, and control your breathing- wait for the right exhale and let one go. Repeat.
I am fortunate in the vision, still 20/10, it may get tougher as time goes on I suspect.
That's impressive Ardent!
I still have 20/20 vision as well (at least the last time I saw my eye doctor) but at 100 yards I find it difficult to get a clear sight picture on a 8.5 x 11 piece of paper. Maybe I'm focusing on the wrong point??
I think that there may be a bit of luck involved but I've been out a few times and this is pretty consistent (although this was the best) I have put a few through the same hole on more than one occasion. I should have taken a picture of it, but 2 weeks ago, my I.T. guy and I went shooting and he had a whole mess of old blackberries phones that we set up at approx 30 - 40 yards and I put 2 right through the middle. You could just barely make out the second hole.
Oh and those Blackberries are surprisingly tough!!! They can take quite a few blasts before they are completely unrecognizable.
Sometimes in this forum I have this flashback, I'm in high school and some fat kid is laughing like a donkey because he thought something sounded retarded... Have fun with that line of humour chief, hope it brings you happiness.
To the OP, join one of our matches some time if interested, PM me for details it's free.
I'd like to hear more of these matches.
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
I lucked out in the vision bit, 20/10 or better (furthest the eye chart goes down to on my aviation medical exams) which translates to twice as good as nominal visual acuity (20/20). So, I fly for a living and shoot for fun, do what you're good at right? I am however terrible at housework and therefore avoid it, just ask my wife, and others should avoid it too it sounds like.
So, it's not going to be the same for everybody, but I've had even "old" fellas do very well in the iron sights shoots. Target needn't be in sharp focus, I focus on the front sight, and let my eye waver gently in and out of focus from sight to target while getting set up. Once ready to shoot I keep the front sight in slightly less focus but still clear, and start to align the hold spot on my target and the front sight. I don't aim for bullseye, I aim for a point of easy reference and adjust my sight for bull, such as resting the entire sheet of 8.5x11 paper on top of the front sight at closer ranges like 200 yards. Hopefully that makes sense to somebody.
I'll return your PM there on the shoots shortly, it's a lot of fun.
Hey, now I get why chinese rifles and 60,000 psi scare the crap outta ya. I think if I had to fly for a living, I'd be cautious too hehehe I've flown a piper cub a few times with my dad years ago, fun times 
I like the challenge shooting out much past 500 represents. I think yer 1000 yrd range is gonna inspire a few folks to stretch it out there themselves. Shooting 500 with irons is impressive enough but 1000? And hitting the targets with irons? That's some mighty fine shooting there angus
I like the challenge shooting out much past 500 represents. I think yer 1000 yrd range is gonna inspire a few folks to stretch it out there themselves. Shooting 500 with irons is impressive enough but 1000? And hitting the targets with irons? That's some mighty fine shooting there angus
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Was going to continue the cold shoulder as it's been like Dr. Jekkyl and Mr. Hyde depending what thread I read, but there's no good in that. I prefer the dirty and perverted version, helis, started fixed wing but switched, they're far too safe.
Yea it certainly breeds in a deep appreciation for mechanical stuff that's reliable like a rock, though one of our American made helis just stranded me and a customer on a mountain last week. Had to call in a European machine to pick us up, the day a Chinese machine shows up to save me I'm staying on the mountain.
Shooting far has always been the most fun for me aside from shotgunning, 200 yards looks like archery distance after you get used to stretching it. Have trouble even shooting .22s at under 100 yards, they're more fun at 200. It's also a hell of a challenge and when you've done so much shooting most of it is getting boring, it's nice to play at something that always proves a challenge. Iron sights at 1,000 never fails for a challenge, for sure, and building M1s and M14s to do it is almost more fun than the shooting part.
Yea it certainly breeds in a deep appreciation for mechanical stuff that's reliable like a rock, though one of our American made helis just stranded me and a customer on a mountain last week. Had to call in a European machine to pick us up, the day a Chinese machine shows up to save me I'm staying on the mountain.
Shooting far has always been the most fun for me aside from shotgunning, 200 yards looks like archery distance after you get used to stretching it. Have trouble even shooting .22s at under 100 yards, they're more fun at 200. It's also a hell of a challenge and when you've done so much shooting most of it is getting boring, it's nice to play at something that always proves a challenge. Iron sights at 1,000 never fails for a challenge, for sure, and building M1s and M14s to do it is almost more fun than the shooting part.
RememberTheSomme
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Nova Scotia
I'd imagine if I were firing 1000 meters with a Garand rear sight, I would be sitting the tiny 6X6 postage stamp at the top right corner of the front sight. Windage and elevation correction of course for the Bull, say 4 clicks up and 3 right unless NM rear used of course.
I'll try this out this coming winter when the vast forest will be mine alone again to set up targets at these distances when it's -20 or so.
As too grouping with an M-14,..I'd place 5 DCRA 20 meter pistol bulls at 100 meters, and fire 5, 5-shot groups noting the start and the last target to see how bad she loosened up on 25 rounds fired as fast as good accuracy would allow and loaded each string with stripper clips.
This would be a good bench mark test for your battle rifle's accuracy.
I'll try this out this coming winter when the vast forest will be mine alone again to set up targets at these distances when it's -20 or so.
As too grouping with an M-14,..I'd place 5 DCRA 20 meter pistol bulls at 100 meters, and fire 5, 5-shot groups noting the start and the last target to see how bad she loosened up on 25 rounds fired as fast as good accuracy would allow and loaded each string with stripper clips.
This would be a good bench mark test for your battle rifle's accuracy.
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Sluggo_m14
CGN Regular
- Location
- State of Disbelief
6" at 1000 yds is about 34 seconds-right?
Sluggo_m14
CGN Regular
- Location
- State of Disbelief
well actually (tan^-1 (3/36000))*2) =.0095 dms->.344 seconds
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
I'm intrigued and appears I may have to brush up my trig, as you've lost me. You're calculating from angle given tangent, which will change depending on the relative height of the target it seems to me. Opposite where seconds will be expressed will grow or shrink depending on target height, adjascent will be perpendicular to the shooter.
Basic MOA definition being 1" at 100 yards of course, equal to 10" at 1,000 yards, each minute comprised of 60 seconds giving 60 seconds in 10" at 1,000 yards x .6 for 6", I'm at a loss for where my error is occuring. I'm a navigator not a mathmetician, and in navigation as I've applied to shooting this makes sense to a blockhead. Always game to learn, and was never a sniper for a living.
Since we're so close by two very different methods of calculating, one field basic, one mathematic, I would appreciate the basic English of where the difference lies.
Basic MOA definition being 1" at 100 yards of course, equal to 10" at 1,000 yards, each minute comprised of 60 seconds giving 60 seconds in 10" at 1,000 yards x .6 for 6", I'm at a loss for where my error is occuring. I'm a navigator not a mathmetician, and in navigation as I've applied to shooting this makes sense to a blockhead. Always game to learn, and was never a sniper for a living.
Since we're so close by two very different methods of calculating, one field basic, one mathematic, I would appreciate the basic English of where the difference lies.
Sluggo_m14
CGN Regular
- Location
- State of Disbelief
1 minute is actually approx 1.047 " at 100yds So for the typical firearms related discussion , where 1 MOA is 1 " you are more right than me-
Assume a 6" diameter disk with its surface perpendicular to the line of sight, the resulting cone will have a 3" radius, the tangent of the angle is opposite/adjacent, where 3" is the opposite length, and 36000" is the adjacent length. Tangent of half the angle is 3/36000 etc,etc. Really doesn't matter about the relative height ,as the sight line is always straight (unless there are atmospheric optical effects, which is of course possible at 1000yds when the angles are so small, but we will disregard them) also since the angle of the target would offer the most error in aiming when perpendicular, I chose that case.
...I think....
I was going to give the pat CGN answer of "google is your friend" but I'm not like that.
Assume a 6" diameter disk with its surface perpendicular to the line of sight, the resulting cone will have a 3" radius, the tangent of the angle is opposite/adjacent, where 3" is the opposite length, and 36000" is the adjacent length. Tangent of half the angle is 3/36000 etc,etc. Really doesn't matter about the relative height ,as the sight line is always straight (unless there are atmospheric optical effects, which is of course possible at 1000yds when the angles are so small, but we will disregard them) also since the angle of the target would offer the most error in aiming when perpendicular, I chose that case.
...I think....
I was going to give the pat CGN answer of "google is your friend" but I'm not like that.
RememberTheSomme
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Nova Scotia
To simplify it for new shooters, 1" @ 3600"s(100yds) is SMOA,or shooters MOA. 1.047"@3600"s(100yds) is actual or true minute of angle. In real world rifle shooting, both are interchangeable, because of less than .5" difference even at 1000 yards.
Over say a Battleship's maximum gun ranges i.e. Littorio class 15" guns with a maximum range nearing 50,000 yards,.... probably as far as they ever got without sub-caliber rocket assisted projectiles, the difference between true MOA and shooters MOA is still only around half a sheet of plywood.
Over say a Battleship's maximum gun ranges i.e. Littorio class 15" guns with a maximum range nearing 50,000 yards,.... probably as far as they ever got without sub-caliber rocket assisted projectiles, the difference between true MOA and shooters MOA is still only around half a sheet of plywood.
