- Location
- Chilliwack
Any one out there shooting the 30-06 AI. What do you think of it. Is there much of a gain in velocity.
30-06 ai
- Thread starter bearhunter338-06
- Start date
I have one built on a Whitworth Mauser. It is a good rifle, in an interesting chambering. Don't expect magnum velocities from one though, there just isn't enough case capacity. 2850-2900 fps with 180 gr bullets, tops. - dan
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
From what I can see some AI rounds make more sense than others. The .25/06 and .280 AIs have some ballistic advantage over their parent case, but the .308 and .30/06 AI not so much. Considering the short life span of some brass before the primer pockets open up, I would be disinclined to go the AI route unless there was a measurable advantage.
I've got a Kimber 8400 chambered in .30 gibbs. I love it, that gibbs cartridge is one pretty ###y looking case IMHO. The worst part is forming brass, but what else do you have to do in that slow week between christmas and new years? I havn't chrono'd it yet but it should be shooting the 180's just under 3000 fps. I took 2nd place with it at our clubs rifle rodeo shoot a couple weeks ago.
Northman999
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Southern Yukon
I was just talking to a guy last week who has one. He told me that with bullets up to and including 165's he sees no difference whatsoever between his 30-06 and his AI, but 180's to 220s, he told me he is getting a full 200 fps more with the AI. He stated he was getting 3000 fps with 180's with his AI with no pressure signs at all.
As the 25-06, 270, 280 and 30-06 all share the same parent case, there should be very little difference in the percentage of ballistic gain. Nor has there been in any of the ones I have owned.If your primer pockets are opening up, it's because you're loading to too high a pressure, period, the fact that it's an AI round has nothing to do with it. I will grant you however, that a lot of AI owners tend to lean on the pressure curve a bit more to "prove" how fast their shiney new toy really is. Common thing to see. FWIW - dan
"but 180's to 220s, he told me he is getting a full 200 fps more with the AI. He stated he was getting 3000 fps with 180's with his AI with no pressure signs at all."
Without a strain gauge, at best all he can give you is an educated guess. Sorry, but I tend to doubt those figures. I've owned three improved 30-06 rifles so far, and the only one that got those kind of gains was the 30-06 Gibbs. - dan
Without a strain gauge, at best all he can give you is an educated guess. Sorry, but I tend to doubt those figures. I've owned three improved 30-06 rifles so far, and the only one that got those kind of gains was the 30-06 Gibbs. - dan
No. I don't see how loading the brass once and firing it in the chamber, also once, is a real chore. Last time I checked, most of us are here because we LIKE shooting guns. Besides, how often do you really need to make new brass? The improved cases last longer than the standard designs they are based on, due to improved shoulder angle and greater case capacity bringing lower pressures.
Again, no. Larger case capacities make the most sense and the most gains when used with heavier bullets, plus the larger the bore size, the more velocity you will get (within reason) for the same powder charge. Therefore, the .30-06 AI gains much more than the .25-06 AI. Plus, what is said is true, that with 165's and lower, there is really very little difference between the AI and its parent. With 180's and up, you will see a real difference. For instance, look at the specs on the .308 vs. .30-06 in the 150's and the 180's. Not much difference in the lighter bullets, very noticeable difference in the heavies.
BearHunter, the .30-06 AI is an excellent cartridge. I have taken deer very cleanly with it and really enjoy it. It certainly is a simple way to 'magnumize' a rifle that is already chambered in '06, though I wouldn't build one from scratch. I have also tried the 8mm-06 AI, and really liked that one as well. I have a friend who shoots and owns many different Ackley improved rifles, and the .30-06 AI is his favourite. 2900+ with the 180 is easily achievable, 3000 is sometimes reachable in some guns, though I would say it is rare. If you want to shoot lighter than 180's, don't waste your time or money.
There is probably as much pure BS written and spoken about AI cartridges as any other rifle related subject. There is no magic in a 40 degree shoulder angle.
"The larger cases don't show their superiority until you get into heavier bullet weights"
I see this one a lot and it is a full load of bovine waste product. In fact, the greatest gains are often seen with lighter bullets. Why? because the smaller case lacks the capacity to reach full pressures with slower burning powders which would otherwise produce higher velocities. The "improved" case might be just enough larger to allow sufficient powder to be used. Using 4350 in a 30/06 behind 150's is a good example. The parent case runs out of capacity. The "improved " case is just enough bigger to allow max pressures to be reached with this powder. Switch to 180's and the parent case will reach max pressures long before case capacity runs out. If you use a powder which requires greater capacity than the parent case provides, you will see gains with the heavier bullets.
Another example is that of the 303 British using 180's and the same 4350 powder. The standard 303 British, in a strong action (P14, Ross) can have about 51 grains of 4350 crammed into the case. This will drive 180's to just over 2600 fps (DON't use this in your Lee Enfield!). Pressures are not that high but there's just no room for more powder. In addition, more powder produces more gas which will produce a longer pressure curve. Rechamber for the 303 Epps (like a 303AI) and the case will now hold 56 grains which will develope about 2750. I we were using 4064 powder, the Epps version would show only minor gains since the standard case already had sufficient capacity.
I have shot standard 30/06 rifles right alongside 30/06 AI rifles. Using 200 grain Sierra bullets and 4831sc powder, the AI would produce about 40 fps more than the standard cartridge. Both rifles had 26 inch barrels. Both were throated the same. The barrels were from the same manufacturer. Pressure in both cases were maximum; based on case head expansion (I loaded until case head expansion was measurable then backed off 2 grains). The only real reason to have a 30/06 AI is because you want one. It isn't going to do much for you in performance. Regards, Bill.
"The larger cases don't show their superiority until you get into heavier bullet weights"
I see this one a lot and it is a full load of bovine waste product. In fact, the greatest gains are often seen with lighter bullets. Why? because the smaller case lacks the capacity to reach full pressures with slower burning powders which would otherwise produce higher velocities. The "improved" case might be just enough larger to allow sufficient powder to be used. Using 4350 in a 30/06 behind 150's is a good example. The parent case runs out of capacity. The "improved " case is just enough bigger to allow max pressures to be reached with this powder. Switch to 180's and the parent case will reach max pressures long before case capacity runs out. If you use a powder which requires greater capacity than the parent case provides, you will see gains with the heavier bullets.
Another example is that of the 303 British using 180's and the same 4350 powder. The standard 303 British, in a strong action (P14, Ross) can have about 51 grains of 4350 crammed into the case. This will drive 180's to just over 2600 fps (DON't use this in your Lee Enfield!). Pressures are not that high but there's just no room for more powder. In addition, more powder produces more gas which will produce a longer pressure curve. Rechamber for the 303 Epps (like a 303AI) and the case will now hold 56 grains which will develope about 2750. I we were using 4064 powder, the Epps version would show only minor gains since the standard case already had sufficient capacity.
I have shot standard 30/06 rifles right alongside 30/06 AI rifles. Using 200 grain Sierra bullets and 4831sc powder, the AI would produce about 40 fps more than the standard cartridge. Both rifles had 26 inch barrels. Both were throated the same. The barrels were from the same manufacturer. Pressure in both cases were maximum; based on case head expansion (I loaded until case head expansion was measurable then backed off 2 grains). The only real reason to have a 30/06 AI is because you want one. It isn't going to do much for you in performance. Regards, Bill.
