A friend of mine asked me to help her sighting in her 30-06 deer rifle before the season begins. She tends to buy the best ammo she can afford, one box a year, so every shot is an expensive proposition. How much difference should she expect in the points of impact for ammo of various weights at 100M ? Is it even significant amount ? My plan is to get some generic cheap ammo for the sighting in/range day but i'm concerned about hom much difference she could expect when she switches to her hunting ammo.
30-06 bullet weight vs POI at 100m ?
- Thread starter RobSmith
- Start date
Depending on the rifle, ammo, bullet weight and brand; the poi could be significent.
Some rifles 'love' some ammo and 'hate' other brands. Some rifle's don't care what ammo you feed it.
All you cand do it try it and see. But if you have found a make and type, grab all of that lot you can find!
Some rifles 'love' some ammo and 'hate' other brands. Some rifle's don't care what ammo you feed it.
All you cand do it try it and see. But if you have found a make and type, grab all of that lot you can find!
The velocity differences between various brands will likely negate any difference in POI at 100m. Likely in the order of 3/10" between 180's and 150's. You are much better of buying that cheap ammo first, but still buying that 1-a-year box of the best she can afford and shooting some of it.
Use the cheap stuff to zero her 2-1/2" high at 100 yards.
Then, with the good stuff, 3 at 200, and 3 at 300 just so she knows what the rounds are doing at the various ranges. That leaves 14 for the rest of the season.
Use the cheap stuff to zero her 2-1/2" high at 100 yards.
Then, with the good stuff, 3 at 200, and 3 at 300 just so she knows what the rounds are doing at the various ranges. That leaves 14 for the rest of the season.
You have to shoot to know what's happening.
I used to shoot 200 grain Hornady spire points in my .358 Winchester as my moose load. I decided to load 180's for deer. I chose Speer flat points, loaded them to the same velocity as the 200's (I think 2400 - 2500 is the most effective velocity range for medium bore rifles). I then proceeded to shoot them.
At 100 yards (I don't shoot meters :twisted: ) the 180s hit two inches LOWER than the 200s. They were on the same windage plane though.
I used to shoot 200 grain Hornady spire points in my .358 Winchester as my moose load. I decided to load 180's for deer. I chose Speer flat points, loaded them to the same velocity as the 200's (I think 2400 - 2500 is the most effective velocity range for medium bore rifles). I then proceeded to shoot them.
At 100 yards (I don't shoot meters :twisted: ) the 180s hit two inches LOWER than the 200s. They were on the same windage plane though.
Why not try and find someone to load a couple of boxes for her to try. Figure out what weight she usually shoots and which velocity and get a friend to load some. Take it out and sight it in with that ammo and then hunt with the same. I'd do it but the shipping would probably be a bit expensive. :roll: Most ammo now has the velocity marked on the box so even if you picked up the cheap stuff and sighted it in as long as the bullet was the same weight and velocity was close you should be alright.
I'd be inclined to sight the gun in with the hunting loads and then on the same target shoot the cheaper stuff. Save that target with the appropriate notes as to which group is which and just shoot the practice stuff all day, who cares where it lands. you could always just before a hunt shoot the practice stuff just to see if there's no changes. If the practice ammo has no changes theres no real reason to assume the hunting stuff has changed either. Get her into reloading and none of it will matter :wink: :wink:
If she changes ammo, she'll have to sight in again. I'd be setting her up with some 150 grain ammo that shoots well in her rifle and forgetting about everything else. Mind you, if she's only shooting once a year, I'm wondering how well she can shoot.
She used to have a 30-30 lever gun, but traded it some years ago for her current 30-06, don't ask me why, probably because her dad had one and talked her into it, I don't know. The thing is short barreled, kicks like a proverbial mule, and seems to have a muzzle blast appropriate only to heavy artillery, also, rarely will she ever see a deer past 50 meters, under those circumstances, personally I'll stick with my SKS thank you very much.
She asked me to help her sight in after she missed last year, not once, not twice, THREE FRIGGIN' TIMES ! (on the same deer too, the thing just wouldn't budge apparently.) She told me later, much later in the year that she kinda, sorta, dropped her rifle on the way to the huntsite, sling broke apparently (But it didn't seem to hit THAT hard ! :roll: ). I've been poking fun of her "buck fever" all year, so at least if she misses this year, it ain't the gun ! :twisted:
She asked me to help her sight in after she missed last year, not once, not twice, THREE FRIGGIN' TIMES ! (on the same deer too, the thing just wouldn't budge apparently.) She told me later, much later in the year that she kinda, sorta, dropped her rifle on the way to the huntsite, sling broke apparently (But it didn't seem to hit THAT hard ! :roll: ). I've been poking fun of her "buck fever" all year, so at least if she misses this year, it ain't the gun ! :twisted:
Bullet weight isn't the only thing that can change POI, sometimes it's just gremlins. When I was shooting a 3006 I started out with remingnton 150 gr PSP corelokts, they were accurate performed great on deer. When I started reloading I started with 165 gr Speer Hotcores and H4831. They shot to the same POI at 100 yards as the factory 150 gr remington's. Next I moved to 165 gr partitions with teh same powder load and low and behold they shot 8 inches higher. I have no idea why, just the vagaries the that rifle. The partitions were just as accurate, around and inch at 100 yards, but teh POI was WAY DIFFERENT, the gun must be sighted in with the ammo to be used on the hunt.
gunasauras
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Western Manitoba
one box a year
Sorry, but IMHO, this is likely a good part of the reason why she missed the same deer three times last year. One needs to shoot the rifle and be familiar with the rifle/load in order to become competent/confident with it. This is just my take from what I read here....for the record, I am NOT trying to start a pissing contest...
Sorry, but IMHO, this is likely a good part of the reason why she missed the same deer three times last year. One needs to shoot the rifle and be familiar with the rifle/load in order to become competent/confident with it. This is just my take from what I read here....for the record, I am NOT trying to start a pissing contest...
Range report :
I picked her up this morning and she and I hit the range and got the rifle zeroed, a winchester model 70. She started the day at the 100M range, two rounds downrange, neither on paper, not a good sign. I then took a turn to at it, single round on the 25M range was dead on bullseye. Now for a guy that's used to shooting either 22lr or 7.62 x 39 thru an SKS I must admit that firing a 30-06 bolt gun is, shall we say, unpleasant
.
I then tried at 100M myself, off paper, hmmmm ... Not good. Then one of the old hands walked over and gave us a lecture on 30-06 ballistics. So we got the scope down about 20 clicks and started getting some paper hits. We fired a total of 15 rounds during the afternoon between the two of us and got the thing to hit where we wanted it to at 100M. after that was done, I kept the brass for a change, even though I don't reload, it migth come in handy one day I guess. We finished the day with my .22's. Overall it was a good day at the range with an old friend, and I have a sore shoulder to nurse now :lol: .
I picked her up this morning and she and I hit the range and got the rifle zeroed, a winchester model 70. She started the day at the 100M range, two rounds downrange, neither on paper, not a good sign. I then took a turn to at it, single round on the 25M range was dead on bullseye. Now for a guy that's used to shooting either 22lr or 7.62 x 39 thru an SKS I must admit that firing a 30-06 bolt gun is, shall we say, unpleasant
.I then tried at 100M myself, off paper, hmmmm ... Not good. Then one of the old hands walked over and gave us a lecture on 30-06 ballistics. So we got the scope down about 20 clicks and started getting some paper hits. We fired a total of 15 rounds during the afternoon between the two of us and got the thing to hit where we wanted it to at 100M. after that was done, I kept the brass for a change, even though I don't reload, it migth come in handy one day I guess. We finished the day with my .22's. Overall it was a good day at the range with an old friend, and I have a sore shoulder to nurse now :lol: .
gunasauras
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Western Manitoba
The more you shoot, the more conditioned to recoil you will also become. Sounds like you had a good day overall. Go back and do it again regularly and both you and she will become more and more proficient with your calibres of choice....happy shooting!
If you change loads there is no way to predict where the point of impact will be with the new load.Even with the same bullet weight there could easily be 2" or more difference in point of impact at 100 yards.Sometimes a heavier bullet will strike higher and sometimes lower and often to one side or the other.Sight in with the load that you will hunt with.
15 rounds and a sore shoulder? I hereby invite you to my place for a trip to the range for load testing/shoulder conditioning!
Typical rounds fired:
50 300WM
50 308
50 35rem from a 14" Contender
+ whatever handguns handy while the big barrels cool. :wink:
At the end of the day you will think your arms will not work any more. The cure for that is a nice steak and a beer. Your arms will work for both, sore or not.
I hereby invite you to my place for a trip to the range for load testing/shoulder conditioning! Typical rounds fired:
50 300WM
50 308
50 35rem from a 14" Contender
+ whatever handguns handy while the big barrels cool. :wink:
At the end of the day you will think your arms will not work any more. The cure for that is a nice steak and a beer. Your arms will work for both, sore or not.
joe-nwt said:15 rounds and a sore shoulder?
Typical rounds fired:
50 300WM
50 308
50 35rem from a 14" Contender
+ whatever handguns handy while the big barrels cool. :wink:
At the end of the day you will think your arms will not work any more. The cure for that is a nice steak and a beer. Your arms will work for both, sore or not.
Actually, that was 15 rounds between the both of us, and I still may take you up on that offer ! :lol: :twisted:
