30-06 (Garand) reloading question

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Northman999

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Fellows,

I was just about to seat my bullets in a box of primed brass when I noticed that my powder load reaches up into the neck of my brass; lots of powder and I was not trying to load a hot load. I'm reloading for my Garand, trying to basically simulate Winchester Ballistic Silvertips (but without the cost). My load info is

Bullet: Nosler Accubond 165 gr
Brass: federal
Primer: Winchester (can't get CCI #34, looked around and was told these
were the next best)
Powder: RL22 59gr (Nosler site lists this as their lowest end load, but still 98% load density)
Velocity: 2800 fps

Anyways, I haven't loaded them yet as all that powder has me second guessing, but according to Nosler, I'm totally at the bottom end for power for that bullet with that powder.

Reccomendations?

P.S I'm a little leery of just going for it as my local gunsmith showed me an exploded Garand reciever this summer the literally blew apart, along with the op rod, with one round of reloaded ammo, specs unknown on the reload.

Thanks ahead of time.
 
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billybob said:
Rl 22 is considered a slow burn powder which will give you maximum port pressures. That combination will usually break your opperating rod.Or worse put your bolt into the back of your reciever cracking it. Yes I have been asked to repair rifles that were abused like this. For powder only use medium burn powders like 3031,4895,4064 etc look up a burning rate chart and do not use SLOW BURNING POWDER!!!!!!!!!
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info Billybob; I'll not use RL22. I rechecked the Nosler site and they do have loads for IMR4895 - they're definitely lighter than I was hoping for though. Max load is 2720 fps. I was hoping for a load at 2800 fps. The Winchester Silvertips I'm trying simulate are 168's at 2790 fps, and they're supposed to be fine for the Garand. Do you know any recipes for 165's @2800 that are safe for my rifle? I DO NOT WANT TO ABUSE MY RIFLE, but this is an all purpose rifle for me, and that includes moose at 400 yards, so I don't want to give away any power I don't have to either...
 
The recoil system is setup to work best with standard issue ballistics. Deviating from that will cause undue wear and tear. H4895 is a great choice as is 147gr bullets.

Heavier bullets will also lead to extra wear.

If the load you want goes 100fps slower then your goal, don't worry about it. The moose will never complain.

Jerry
 
i have a very good article from a 1986 issue of the nra american rifle magazine.
its a simple article with VERY GOOD info on what powder too use ect. for reloading 3006 ammo safe for the m1 garand.
ask send yer email i will send the 4 scanned pages.
 
c1a1 said:
If you are reloading for the M1 Garand, always use a McCaan or Schuster(sp) gas plug system.
Click to expand...

Having trouble finding these on internet search. Any suggestions on where to get them?

Found em! http://www.adcofirearms.com/gasnuts.cfm for anyone else reloading for the Garand. I know you're out there. I'll have to call tomorrow and see if they ship to Canada
 
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"...hoping for a load at 2800 fps..." That velocity comes with using IMR4895. The .30 M2 ammo with its 152 grain bullet and .30 AP with its 168 grain bullet were loaded with IMR4895. You will find IMR4064 gives more consistent accuracy though.
"...my powder load reaches up into the neck..." That doesn't mean it's a hot load. It just means the RL22 powder you're using fills the case more. Some powders will give you a compressed load. That's nothing to worry about either.
"...exploded Garand reciever..." Operator failure. You really have to screw up the load to blow up an M1 receiver. Shooting an 8mm Mauser in the rifle will do it.
You don't need any kind of adjustable gas plug to load for an M1. Those are new. Lots of reloaded and commercial factory ammo has been fired out of M1's with no fuss long before there was such a thing.
The rifle likes 165 grain hunting bullets and 168(up to 600 yards) or 175(past 600) grain match bullets with IMR4064, IMR4895, Varget or a like powder giving similar velocities with regular large rifle primers(CCI #34's are a marketing gimmick). 150's will do, but the rifle really prefers slightly heavier bullets. It was designed to use 174.5 grain bullets, not 150's. Or 152's either. 180's won't hurt it either, but there's no game in North America that a 165 grain bullet won't kill.
The Hornady manual, I think it is, has M1 specific loads if you're really concerned. Load for the bullet weight. Who made it doesn't matter.
 
NB.nagantsniper sent me an excellent article and I'd like to thank him publicly for his assistance. The article even goes into reloading up to 200gr bullets! I'm not going past 165's; if I can get them very near 2800 fps in a safe load for my rifle, I'll be well pleased. Keep the info coming though, I know I'm not the only one wanting this info for the Garand. Maybe we could start some kind of thread with detailed "pet Garand loads" once we have lots of good info, for guys getting into reloading for their garands? Thanks for all the help so far fellows!
 
"...detailed "pet Garand loads"..." That doesn't work well. You have to work up the load for your rifle. No two rifles will shoot the same ammo the same way.
"...up to 200gr bullets!..." I've shot 220 grain Silvertips out of mine with no fuss, but over 180 grains isn't recommended. It's claimed that over 180's will damage the op rod. Never heard of that prior to there being an Internet. Not a single word has ever been printed saying that prior to it being stated on the 'Net. 165's and 168's shoot better with less recoil though.
 
Fellows, I checked my reloading manuals, and the other information you've provided. I am thinking I'll try this; 165gr Accubonds with IMR 4831 powder (seems like pretty much universally reccomended to me), three loads to get to where I want to be. According to my Hornady manual, 54.5gr will get me 2600 fps to start, then up to 56.4 gr for 2700 fps, and then if I see no problems, 58.2 gr for 2800 fps. Their info is based on a 22" barrel as well, so I might get a tiny bit more out of my rifle with no added pressure. Does this seem saner than the data I first posted from the Nosler site?
 
billybob; yes I totally agree with you. After hunting for 20 years with rifles ranging from .270 rem to 375 H&H I've come to be a firm believer in shot placement and competency with your rifle over everything else. By trying three different loads I'll also be checking for accuracy as I go. If I group the same at 2800 than at 2700 then I'll stick with 2800 naturally, but I do recognize the need for an accurate load. A miss is a miss after all, and I don't care if you missed with a .50 BMG your moose will still get away!
 
c1a1 said:
If you are reloading for the M1 Garand, always use a McCaan or Schuster(sp) gas plug system.
Click to expand...

I don't know what these systems are. But, I quickly guess that thousands of M1 rifles have shot millions of handloaded .30-06 cartridges without these gas plugs. The secret to the Garand is to duplicate gas port pressures, nothing more.
 
Okay fellows, I did up ten rounds each that should be at 2600 and 2700 fps, but when I got to loading my powder in for my final loads (58.2 gr of IMR 4831 for 2800 fps) the case is full right to the rim with powder. Trying to put a bullet in results in having a few little granules drop out the side; and that's not even seating the bullet yet? Can I actually load with this much powder crammed in the case? Sorry if this thread is becoming "reloading 101 for idiots", but I wasn't planning on having to actually displace powder just to get the boattail part of the bullet in the casing! I can't imagine how anyone could go the step further that my reloading manual states and load the round up to 2900fps.
 
Well try this, I copied and pasted from a US forum on this very subject,



jdefilippo


USA
110 Posts
Posted - 10/19/2005 : 22:35:45
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From “The M1 Rifle” page 18 published by the NRA

Reloads for the M1 Rifle
I want to reload ammunition for my MI Rifle. Other shooters tell me to be careful in my selection of components for the incorrect ones can damage the rifle. What should I choose? What should I avoid? Why?

Answer:
The warnings you have been given are good ones. Though it is a rugged, piece of equipment, the MI Rifle has an "Achilles heel"; its long, slender operating rod. Operating rods can be bent to the point of uselessness if continually subjected to propellant gas pressures that are too high. Such too-high pressures are usually the result of either too-heavy bullets or too slow burning powder, or both. In military service, over the several decades that the MI was either our primary or an important secondary arm, this potential fragility of the operating rod was not a problem. Ammunition for the rifle was developed and loaded that did not cause overly high pressure to be exerted against the operating rod, and so did not damage it. Handloaders, however, can choose combinations of components that will cause damage. For best results, use powders faster than IMR 4320, and bullets of 180 grains weight, or lighter. Suggested loading data for .30-'06 ammunition in MI Rifles follows:

147/150-gr. bullets - either FMJ or HPBT
IMR 3031 48.0 grs.
IMR 4895 49.0 grs.
IMR 4064 50.0 grs.
Win 748 Ball 48.0 grs.
Acc AA2460 49.0 grs.
AccAA2520 51.0grs.
Acc 2495BR 50.5 grs.
Hod H-4895 49.0 grs.
Hod BL-C2 49.0 grs.
Hod H-335 49.0 grs.
Herc Re-12 48.0grs.

165/168-gr. bullets - either SP, HP, or FMJ
IMR 4895 47.0 grs.
IMR 4064 48.0 grs.
Acc AA2520 47.5 grs.
Acc 2495BR 47.0 grs.
Hod H-4895 47.5 grs.
Hod BL-C2 49.0 grs.
Hod H-335 47.0 grs.
Herc Re-12 44.5 grs.

173/175-gr.bullets-M72 or MII8 :
IMR 4895 46.0 grs.
IMR 4064 47.0 grs.
Acc AA2460 46.0 grs.
Acc 2495BR 46.0 grs.
Hod H-4895 47.0 grs.
Hod BL-C2 48.0 grs.

180-gr. bullets - either SP, HP, or FMJ
IMR 4895 43.0 grs.
Acc AA2460 46.5 grs.
Acc 2495BR 45.5 grs.
Hod H-4895 44.0 grs.
Hod BL-C2 47.5 grs.

Please note 4831 is not on this list...58ish grains of that is for bolt actions IMHO.
If you use that load, you are going to wreck your M1 rifle, and maybe hurt yourself too.
Both Sunray and Billybob warned against this as well, if you carefully re-read thier posts.

Cheers
 
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Fellows, just checked back here and reread posts (thanks Brutus). Somehow missed the warnings against 4831, strangely I thought it was being reccomended. I'll load up some rounds with IMR 4064 instead; and pull my bullets on those 4831 loads. Thanks again.
 
Its easy to be deceived with this powder, strangely enough there once was a Guns & Ammo article
(about 1982) that ONCE recommended this same powder for the 30-06 M1.
So occassionally there is referance to it on the net, although it is an unsafe choice if one does more research.
Glad to be of help, and good luck to you.

Cheers
 
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