.30-06 load Wtf!?

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Demonical

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I went to the range today to fire a couple of old loads. Both loads were identical; 58grs IMR4350 CCI lg rifle primers, Federal brass. 1 load was with 165gr Horn IL and the other was with 165gr Horn IB, those are both BTSP.

My records indicate that I loaded the IB's IL's Aug 27 2004 & the IL's the next day, Aug 28 2004.

That has been my standard loading in my .30-06 for years. I have always averaged 1"-1.25" for 5 shots with this loading, with the odd good day, when I'd sneak all 5 under 1". I pretty much only use it for deer. These loads have always averaged 2850fps MV. But today was, "WTF just happened kinda deal...."

3006002.jpg

My 1980 circa .30-06. M700 Remington bedded in a Wildcat Composite stock.

I had the Chrony set-up because I was also gonna test fire a .35 Whelen load.

First shot through the chronograph was 3067fps... "Wtf!? That can't be right." Next shot was about 3045. So I shut off the Chrony, turned it back on and the next 3 shots were all well over 3000fps and the 5 shots averaged 3040fps. (the squares are exactly 1"). So that's 200fps faster then anything I've ever fired with this loading... :confused:

The IB's averaged 2995fps MV. Fastest was 3007 and the slowest was 2990.

So how could this be? What the hell would explain this? Did I get into a lot of IMR4350 that was a bit 'off'? I examined the primers and they were not excessively flattened, the bolt lift was normal.


3006001.jpg

Before...

3006003.jpg

After. IL target is on the left. The very first shot was the fastest and it's the 'flyer' up to the right.
The other 4 shots avg'd 3040fps and just about 1".

3006004.jpg

Brass from the Interlocks...

3006006.jpg
 
^ No. Bolt lift was okay, but the loads were definitely 'hot' for some reason. I'm wondering if the problem was because I loaded these with powder that starting to degrade? Or did I hit that transition when IMR switched from the metal cans to the plastic and somehow the powder had changed?

I am not going to fire the bullets that remain from those 2 loadings, I'm gonna pull 'em and go back to square one.
I've got some 165gr Accubonds on order and when they arrive, I'm gonna load some of those, plus these Horn I"s and IB's...
 
Kind of an obvious one here, but....
Is your powder measure off? What do you do to confirm measure throw?
 
In addition to the points the others mentioned, might you have accidentally loades with magnum primers?

Still, if you aren't having pressure signs, I'd say be happy. A free 200 fps and still nice tight groups is good news in my books!
 
Make sure your Chrony was opened to it's full, maybe the tripod was in the way for it to fully open.
If it's not fully opened, speed will be up.
 
^ I doubt the powder measure was off. I loaded these 2 loads 6 years agao, a day apart. I cannot account for the delta in speed bewteen the 2 or with prior experience with that load.

It was pretty warm here today; 20C. I suppose that could have had an effect...

I did have the Chrony wide open. Also, right after I fired these, I fired my .35 Whelen loads and they were right where I would've expected them to be.
 
x3 on imr being sensitive.

Case in point. At 100 yards during hot weather end of the summer gun was shooting point of aim with scope, 52gr IMR 4350 behind a 150gr bullet.

Took out same gun in -20*C weather, after sitting in the safe untouched for the fall, shot a mag of rounds from the same reloading session, same box of bullets, same brass, primers, powder etc, and had the group open up several inches and drop about 7 inches. Didn't measure exactly because it was cold out and didn't feel like sighting in again in that weather.
 
10-04 on the IMR 4350. I load in batches of 100 and its not consistent in all seasons. I stopped using that powder. I thought it was my scope for the longest time, but once I got into other powder, my scope was good in all temps :)
 
So you're telling me, if I download this to produce the desired 2850fps in 20C weather, that I might end up with only 2600fps, when it's -20C!?

FWIW, I pulled 1 bullet this morn. The powder is absolutely perfect; no degradation whatsoever. I weighed it... exactly 58grs.

I was gonna pull the rest, but now I don't think I'll bother. I'll just set these aside and use like I always have, November whitetails.

I think I'm gonna search for a less temp sensitive powder.
Recommendations?
 
H4350? H414 and H380 are good too. Then there's always good 'ol Varget.

H4350 will be pretty easy to work up. I'm a fan of Hodgdon's extruded powders for temperature insensitivity and fast loading. If you do most of your hunting in cold weather, Varget might perform better. H414 and H380 are difficult to meter accurately. I usually weigh each charge just to be sure - although it takes a lot longer to load up a box of 100 or more.
 
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bigslide, I don't own a powder measure, I weigh every charge individually, always have.


Link to an article about temp effect on powders.
http://www.shootingsoftware.com/ftp/Pressure Factors.pdf

The results I had don't jive with what buddy reports in that test though. The fastest shot I fired was the very first one. I didn't fire 'em all at once, to try to prevent the barrel from heating too much (the Interlocks).
But by the time I got to the IB's, I decided to rip 'em all off. The barrel was really warmed up, hot, which could account for the crappy group I got there. Also, the IB loads averaged ~60fps less, even though they were fired through the barrel when it was bloody hot.

The other thing is, according to this guys test, the H4350 was more temp sensitive then the IMR4350, which sounds strange. I've always believed that the Hodgdon powders were supposed to be less affected by temp...

Anybody... :confused:
 
My experience agrees with yours... Hodgdon powders are almost always less effected by temp than the IMR. I am wondering if the drop in velocity was because the round didn't spend as long in the chamber. I have noticed that if you don't let the round (and powder) heat up in the chamber, a warm barrel has more effect on POI than MV.
 
^ Oh yeah... that one bullet that I pulled, I reloaded it back into the same cartridge. Might as well, I figured.

According to my chart, the powders I have on my bench, that are closest to IMR-4350, are H-414 and H-4350. I will try some loads with each of those.
 
3000fps with 165gr bullet in 3006 is no big deal. Hornady's manual 3rd edition lists loads for their 165gr IL and 2 powders; H205 and win 760 aka H414 at safe 3000fps. Low capacity brass, hot primer or temp, fast barrel, diferent powder lot (or dryier), Chrony calibration or the combination of other factors might contribute to higher speeds than expected. So what is the story here?
 
If you are not experiencing pressure signs, then shoot the ammo. I use 4350 in the .30-06 too, but I only use H4350 as it is better for those crazy Saskatchewan temp changes.
 
The Hodgdon EXTREME powders are supposed to be unaffected by temperature changes. Their EXTREME lineup does not include H380 or H414, but does include H4350. I find that H4350 [use in 30-06 and .280] still does get affected by temperature changes, but not as much as H380 [tried in 6.5x55]. When temp changes caused a 125-150 fps change in the H4350, the H380 would show a change of 225-250 fps. I haven't used the IMR line very much. Reloader powders are affected a lot by temp changes as well, but I have a hard time reaching book velocities with reloader powders anyway[RL22 & RL19].
 
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