30-06 projectile question

jay007

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Still very new to reloading and must admit that I now know why I was warned that it was addicting.

Have only reloaded for .223 so far.

My next venture is to reload for my 30-06. Its a Winchester model 70 westerner.

I am leaning towards trying a 165 gr projectile.

My question is, that with what I have easy availability to for hunting projectiles in 165 gr is; Barnes TTSX and Hornady SST.

Any reviews? experiences? tell me your thoughts/knowledge on these 2.

I want to use this as a do all. deer, elk, black bear.
 
Your bullet weight is a good choice. Deer are easy to kill, so I prefer a heavier bullet so as to do less meat damage, so load the 180 for everything. But here in the east we don't usually get the long range shots you might consider normal, so the 165 might be better for you.
 
I'm in with 180 gr bullets. Have tried the Hornady SST and Nosler Accubond. In my rifle the Accubond works best but at almost double the cost unfortunately.
 
If it was me doing this I would pick a weight (165 or 180) and buy a box of cheap bullets that would do the job. (I think a cheap 180 is a better bet than a cheap 165). I would buy a box of 180 pointed flat-based Hornady, Sierra and Speer (and Remington, if they were a available) and then shoot them with 3 different powder charges (say, 53, 54 & 55 gr of 4350), in 3 shot groups.

In one afternoon (it would take awhile to let the barrel cool between groups) I would have a good idea of which bullet seemed to work the best in my rifle.

Then I would buy a whack of that bullet (one or two bricks, all the same lot #) and then develop the powder charge and OAL that worked best.

Everyone here might agree that bullet A is better than bullet B, but what really matters is what bullet shoots well in your rifle. Some rifles have a very strong preference, so try 3 different bullets.
 
After some reading I now have worries about both these projectiles, stories about too slow of expansion with the TTSX and with too rapid of expansion with the SST. Maybe I will have to look at what else is available.
 
I've had a good experience with Winchester PowerPoint (180gr) both accuracy and expansion wise.
But then again, all my shots were under 100m
 
I have taken 2 bear and 1 deer with my 30-06 and 165g SST. The Bears were with factory Hornady ammo and the deer was wih handloads. Worked great. Hammered them. 30- 120yrds. All pass threw with minimal meat damage.
 
Monometals like the Barnes are all about speed. They expand better at high speed, therefore , everything else being the same a lighter projectile is recommended. For those you might want to consider a 150 gr.

The SST is effectively a interlock, not a premium bullet. For most Hunting they will be effective just like any other cup n core bullet.

Other choices would be Nosler partitions, Swifts, and Matrix. Unfortunately, most stores are short of variety and supply. Ganderites advice was spot on. Find the projectile, powder, COAL, brass, and primer that your particular rifle likes. Then load a whole lot of them if you can find the components.
 
The last two deer and a black bear I took were with SST/Interlocks. Albeit they were 140gr 6.5 diameter. One deer was shot at just under 100m and the bullet passed all the way through. It punched through two ribs and two lungs. The exit hole was around 2cm. The other deer was taken at close to 400m. I made a newbie mistake and misjudged the distance even though I had a rangefinder around my neck and the buck wasn't spooked. I had checked the distances in this field before from my blind beside a fence overgrown with tall grass. The deer came out earlier than usual as it was going to rain. I hadn't made it to my regular shooting position and had to take the animal from where I came out of the bushes. It was about 50m further away and the deer was closer to the cover than I thought.

I held the cross hairs just on the line of his back. The bullet struck him in the front left leg joint as he was walking. It was a 140gr Hornady SST Interlock. The bullet went through the joint, through the brisket and through the skin on the far side. The bullet did not over expand or blow up. Penetration was as good as could be asked for of any bullet. The deer went down then got back up again and slowly walked for appx 50 meters, obviously in dire straits.

The black bear, an nice 5+ foot male in very nice condition that had been marinating itself on last years corn silage was shot at 300m with the same bullet. Again, no bullet recovery and an exit hole about 2cm across in the mid rib cage.

I have used that same bullet on Elk and Moose. None of them figured out it wasn't an expensive premium bullet.

The biggest lesson you need to learn is how you intend to take your animal. Some people insist they have to break the shoulder and the bullets have to pass all the way through. This takes an extremely tough bullet and wastes a lot of meat. By the way, I like a bullet to pass all the way through as well, especially through the boiler room.

My advice to you is to find the bullet your rifle likes best, as was suggested above. I haven't seen a rifle yet that doesn't shoot the Hornady SST/Interlock bullets well. Of course, there are always exceptions.

This will raise a few hackles but I really like the system they have in Norway for judging if you are well practiced enough to place your shots onto a moving moose within a specified kill zone. It wouldn't hurt my feelings to see a similar system employed here in Canada when getting licensed to hunt big game.

The gist of this is, shoot enough to become proficient from as far as you intend to shoot within your abilities, from different positions such as prone, kneeling, standing off hand, leaning against support like a fence or tree, shooting stick and even with the rifle on its side. Be careful to utilize the sweet spot the rifle likes to have its fore end resting on. Remember that when shooting downhill, depending on angle of course, you don't have to compensate so much for bullet drop. Learn the effect of crosswinds on your bullet of choice. Also, if the sun is harsh there may even be some degree of effect on the bullet drop as well.

Lots to consider other than bullet construction.

Over the years, I have worked on several rifles carried by guides. Mostly they are the cheapest model off the shelf with the cheapest scopes that will maintain zero. One other resounding regularity with them is they seldom reload and purchase the cheapest cartridges they can find. One of these fellows goes to the gun shows if they are early in the year and picks up part boxes of 300 Win Mag with 165 grain bullets. Brand makes no difference to him just bullet weight. Some of those boxes of cartridges are 30+ years old and some are factory loads while others are hand loads. He doesn't care, cheap is the issue.

He is one hell of a shot. At most he might shoot 40-50 rounds per year out of that old Savage 110. That rifle has had the stock broken several times because horses can be damnable creatures for rubbing rifles up against stumps, trees and rock faces at every opportunity. If one of those doesn't crop up, they will roll on it as soon as your foot gets out of the stirrup. Well, sometimes they don't wait and just roll.

I have been lucky enough to find him a take off stock each time it happens. The thing is, no matter what I do, that rifle will never shoot better than 3in at 100 yards. It doesn't care what you shoot through it. Handloads or factory loads it shoots them all the same.

The owner of this beast is fine with that as well as the 4X K4 Weaver Steelite and Weaver rings/bases. He knows the animals he shoots have kill zones about 9in or 20cm in diameter. That means the rifle is perfectly adequate, in his opinion, out to 300m. He can place half a box of mixed manufactured cartridges into a 10in, 20cm paper plate off hand right out to 300m.

I have had to cut off the butts on the replacement stocks to fit his small stature and 12in trigger pull length. He is very insistent on that. I put one stock on that was about a half inch longer and his shooting skills went south in a hurry. He is used to a 12 in pull length and nothing else will do.

By the way, he might clean that rifle once every couple of years with a ten year old bottle of Hoppe's No 9 solvent and a cheap aluminum cleaning rod and worn out copper brush. He cleans it from the muzzle. Oil???? Never sees the surface or internals on any part of that rifle. He does wipe it down with an old shirt and does use an old tooth brush to keep the receiver free of pine needles and other flotsam.

The thing is, he is intimately familiar with that rifle. He knows his capabilities and those of the rifle. He also knows that if you don't hit an animal properly It doesn't matter whether it is a magnum or chambered for a standard caliber that animal is going to run away, often terribly wounded to die in agony days later.

I saw him refuse to book a hunt for a client for the following year because the client was a terrible shot and they had to chase a Moose all day and pick up its trail the next morning. It came back to within a couple of hundred meters of where it was shot. He was badly shaken by the thought of what the Moose was going through and that the hunter didn't seem to be concerned.

What I am getting at, learn to shoot well from several different positions at different ranges. Not just measured ranges. Learn to take an animal cleanly with a well placed shot in the boiler room. Unless, in my experience, you hit the animal in the brain or spine that animal will likely run for up to 100 yards. If you don't take out the heart or lungs, it will run a lot further and may not be recoverable.

There is a lot more to hunting than many people realize. A good hunting ETHIC is imperative. You owe it to any animal you hunt to dispatch it as cleanly as possible. A well hit animal will never know if it was taken with a premium bullet or cheap bullet.

Premium bullets came into their own because many of the older bullets back in the day were not very good. Today, that has changed. Some of the cheap bullets like the Hornady, Speer, Remington brands are as good as the premium bullets of ten years ago and are often more accurate.
 
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just buy a box of 180 gr bullets to load along side your 165's. Your gun may not like 165 grainers. I have only owned 1 gun out of SIX .30 calibers that I reload for that liked 165 grain bullets. You may find that your gun will only shoot 3" groups. A longer 180gr bullet has a longer bearing surface that is often more forgiving to individual variances of the bores. Anyhow, the only way to know is shoot, shoot, shoot some more. I have a Rem 700 that LOVES 165gr Speer Deep Curl bullets. Thankfully, I have 8 boxes to last me..........it is strictly used as a mountain rifle for sheep.
 
Last fall I did some load development for my son's and my own 30:06's using four different bullets and four different powders. The results? Both rifles shot the 168 grain Berger Classic like Holy Hot Dam. Mine with IMR 4831 and my son's with IMR4350. He took a doe at about 160ish yards and she was DRT. I tried Nosler, Berger, Hornady and Sierra. I did not read all of the posts but at least one response was to see what your rifle likes to shoot. That is the best. I really wanted to shoot the Nosler Ballistic Tips but .... the Bergers were by far the most accurate in our guns.

I tried the 180's and the 168's in the Berger line and the 168 worked best.
 
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TTSX in the 30-06 are excellent. I use 150s and have not had to track any animals. All full pass throughs as well. With the TTSX you are best to drop down in size. I may even bump down to 130s.

Either way, your 165s will kill anything dead. Shot placement is key no matter what ya use.
 
My Weatherby Vanguard in .30-06 loves 165's/168's. Like others have said, load up a cross sample of weights, go to range.
 
Last fall I did some load development for my son's and my own 30:06's using four different bullets and four different powders. The results? Both rifles shot the 168 grain Berger Classic like Holy Hot Dam. Mine with IMR 4831 and my son's with IMR4350. He took a doe at about 160ish yards and she was DRT. I tried Nosler, Berger, Hornady and Sierra. I did not read all of the posts but at least one response was to see what your rifle likes to shoot. That is the best. I really wanted to shoot the Nosler Ballistic Tips but .... the Bergers were by far the most accurate in our guns.

x2 grey wolf
 
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