30-06 vs .308??
- Thread starter Max-4
- Start date
lineofsight
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Lower Mainland, BC
The majority I looked at were .308 with a handful of 30-06 and a some smaller calibres. That kind of speaks for itself about the range/accuracy of said calibres, doesn't it..........
I didn't see any 300 win mags on the list so I guess that tells you what professional shooters think of that calibre (sorry guys, just had to say it........LOL)
Agree on the WM in that it may be a recoil issue and as you pointed out with practice practice practice, also not as much fun with a WM. However, disagree that it kind of speaks for itself as should match bullet choice to the game (hopefully not hunting humans, if want a heavier bullet 175-220 range where the .30-06 offers an advantage. Heavier bullets may also offer less drift. However, its been pointed out that the 165 TSX will do it all (as will a .270 or a sharp pointy stick). I may have missed it but why not get closer to the game?
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EDIT
sogetthis, great minds think alike - and fools seldom differ
John Spartan
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Just a little more to the right...
30-06 vs .308 - no meaningful difference between the two, and how many people can shoot accurately at 400-500 yards consistently day in/day out? Besides, most game is shot within 250 yards or so, and often much closer.
Flip a coin, get a gun, practice, and go hunting.
Flip a coin, get a gun, practice, and go hunting.
I've shot both rounds 08 and 06 about the same up to 250 yards for deer but when going for moose and bear or even deer at over 300 yards the 30-06 is the main gun.
Round weights can be changed in the 06 for smaller game in the 55 grain to 220 for moose with barely in change in the scope.
Round weights can be changed in the 06 for smaller game in the 55 grain to 220 for moose with barely in change in the scope.
Chopperdoctor
CGN Regular
- Location
- Chinook Country, up wind of Calgary.
I have to agree with lineofsight on the "why not get closer" idea. The late Jack O'Connor took pretty much every species of Noth American big game, with a Winchester Model 70 Featherweight, in .270 Winchester, and pretty much every bighorn sheep he ever shot was within 200 yards. Everyone seems to be getting caugh up in the "bigger, faster, farther" rage. We'd all be better off, to pick the rifle and caliber combination that we can shoot, like to shoot, and shoot well. That means shooting something you're not tensed-up with, waiting to go off every shot, and becoming better hunters, IE better stalkers. Mr. Chopperdoctor Sr. hunts exclusively with a Browning BBR in .338 Win Mag. I've shot it a few times, and he can have it! I own a .270., a .308, a 30-06, and even a .300 Weatherby, and unless I'm in Griz country, I'll reach for the .270 every time. I don't have a problem using it on Elk or Moose, with the right bullet, at the right range. Don't get me wrong, I've spent pleny-o-afternoons, hunkered down on a small hill top, splattin' gophers with my .308 target rifle, and a 125 grain pointed soft point out of my 30-06, is magic on coyotes. Hell, even the Weatherby is easier shooting than that G@&damn .338, and I can print 3/4" groups with the right factory ammo with it, but that .270 just feels like it belongs in my arms. It's always a surprise when the sear breaks, and for me it's like plinking with a .22. Making the shot is a very small part of the whole experience, as far as I'm concerned. It takes a lot more to learn to think like the animal you're after, than it does to sit and blaze away at it from so far away, it doesn't even know you're there. It definitely shows a lot more respect for the animal, and is a much truer test of your mettle.
Whoops! Sorry for the sermon.
Whoops! Sorry for the sermon.
762shooter said this -------I suppose some may and more used to but current Ruger, Remington, Savage and late Win 70 rifles in .308 are all true short actions.
I wondered about that, and kind of had my tongue in my cheek when I wrote it.
Thanks for telling me this with such excellent wording.
I wondered about that, and kind of had my tongue in my cheek when I wrote it.
Thanks for telling me this with such excellent wording.
p-17 said --------As stated above, the reason for this difference is that the .308 is a much more modern design. Therefore, it's already loaded up to its maximum potential in factory ammo. The .30-06, on the other hand, is loaded by the factories so that it is safe to work in old 100-year-old military rifles and Garands. However, once you stuff that long .30-06 case full of modern, double-base magnum powders like Reloder 22 and N560, and use 165-grain or heavier bullets, the .30-06 really takes off, and in a good rifle, it can be accurate enough for serious target use, though, statistically, the .308 is a little more inherently accurate.
p-17, you are so right! I remember when the 308 came out, the word was that it was hard to get a handload up to the speed of a factory round.
But, when you load the 30-06 up to what your bolt action will safely handle, there is quite a difference.
I chronographed the following. By the way, the Norma powder I used is not very "modern," by most peoples standard.
Norma 204, 165 grain Hornady, average speed, 2912.
same powder with 180 grain Norma bullet, average 2810.
200 grain Speer and/or 200 grain Nosler partition and Norma 205 powder averaged 2715.
This was from my 1949 Husqvarna and checked with a Oehler 33 chronograph.
p-17, you are so right! I remember when the 308 came out, the word was that it was hard to get a handload up to the speed of a factory round.
But, when you load the 30-06 up to what your bolt action will safely handle, there is quite a difference.
I chronographed the following. By the way, the Norma powder I used is not very "modern," by most peoples standard.
Norma 204, 165 grain Hornady, average speed, 2912.
same powder with 180 grain Norma bullet, average 2810.
200 grain Speer and/or 200 grain Nosler partition and Norma 205 powder averaged 2715.
This was from my 1949 Husqvarna and checked with a Oehler 33 chronograph.
- Location
- Vancouver Island BC
If you are concerned about 3 ounces more weight on your rifle, then it's time to bake cookies and stay out of the bush.
pick the '06
In lighter bullet weights, their is not a big difference in performance between the two, but the 30-06 is better in the heavier bullets. My accurate load for 180 HDY interbonds with H4350 chronys 2800 to 2900 at 0 Celcius. My 2 cents
In lighter bullet weights, their is not a big difference in performance between the two, but the 30-06 is better in the heavier bullets. My accurate load for 180 HDY interbonds with H4350 chronys 2800 to 2900 at 0 Celcius. My 2 cents
- Location
- Vancouver Island BC
Both are adequate for the purposes you mentioned, but the 06 has the advantage of launching the heavy bullets faster.The heavy bullets would also be an more suited to critters that can bite you.
Puts hand up, I can with a .30 06 using Hornady balistic tip BTHP. Out in Saskatchewan on my family farm hunting at this range is quite common however you have to shoot it alot at different times of day, temp, and windspeed. I think it is rather unrelivent to talk about what the '06 cartridge is designed for. It is a fantastic Round, extremely flexable and you can hunt anything on this continent with it. You have to be aware the hitting power diminishes with range so you have to grow a pair get some skill and get in there. I love the .308 as well it is a great round lighter then the '06 if you are carrying ammo in your pocket. I once knew a guy that hunted everything imaginable from gophers to bear with his .308. He used to clean up at the long range shooting compititions every year, guys used to laugh as they broke out the magnums and he pulls out this old beat up .308. The only thing that really matters is know your rifle what it can do, and if you hand load don't try your workup loads on a Bull Moose they get pissed really fast!!
Both rounds have almost identical ballistics due to the .308 having more pressure in the casing from a faster burning powder. now as for what your talking about, yes the .308 and 30-06 are deffinatly capable of killing all animals mentioned at 500+ yards but it comes down to the shooter and his gear. The standard hunting rifle off the shelf is not suitable for these ranges. They just arent usualy consistant enough to ethically take a shot that far. I have a .308 set up for long range hunting and now that I live NB and moose and bear are much more accessible I am probably buying a something bigger in the .300ds, not because I think I need the that much power to kill and animal but more so I feel alot easier about taking a shot 500+ at a larger animal. There are deffinatly reasons not to go bigger than a .308/30-06 and I completly understand that ex: creating a flinch...
All in all, in your situation I would choose the .308. It comes in a short action, faster burn rate so in a shorter barrel you will still get full velocity, less kick, and overall the .308 is known to be a more consistant reliable round.
All in all, in your situation I would choose the .308. It comes in a short action, faster burn rate so in a shorter barrel you will still get full velocity, less kick, and overall the .308 is known to be a more consistant reliable round.
Well I shoulda been more specific with my intended ranges, 99% of the deer/moose/bear I will be shooting will be under 300yrds. I just want a rifle that can take all of these species humanely and accurately at these distances. I will use it for field hunting deer where the shots can get up to these distances, I will also use it for moose and bear at any range.
I consider the Winchester 94 30-30 to be the ultimate "bush gun" for whitetail deer, and that it what I will use it for in northern Ontario. However when I hunt farm land for deer or am after moose or bear I want a better round to blanket cover these needs. I think I will be going with the 30-06 for this because it seems to be the same as the .308 with lighter bullets but gives me the option to push heavier bullets with good speed too!!
I thank you guys for your input, and now its just up to finding a good bolt action rifle I like for the 30-06. Love wood and blued metal!!!
I consider the Winchester 94 30-30 to be the ultimate "bush gun" for whitetail deer, and that it what I will use it for in northern Ontario. However when I hunt farm land for deer or am after moose or bear I want a better round to blanket cover these needs. I think I will be going with the 30-06 for this because it seems to be the same as the .308 with lighter bullets but gives me the option to push heavier bullets with good speed too!!
I thank you guys for your input, and now its just up to finding a good bolt action rifle I like for the 30-06. Love wood and blued metal!!!
- Location
- Saskatchewan
I chose the .308 many years ago, after asking myself the same question. No regrets. I have 4 .308's, now, and have owned a couple others, have never seen a need to own a 30-06.
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
I don't have a great deal to add to what has already been posted, however there is general belief that a short action rifle will be lighter than a standard or magnum length action rifle. One needs to look no farther than my gun rack to see that this is not necessarily true. My wife's Husky 1600 lightweight (a .30/06) after being cut to fit her comes in at about 6 pounds. The stock is very light and the magazine box is plastic. My .308 M-700 target rifle weighs 20 pounds. The Brno 602, while not known for being a fly weight rifle, before switching to the McMillan stock mine came in at 7 pounds with the 20" Smith barrel. So, a .30/06 does not need to weigh more than a .308.
If you never shoot bullets that weigh more than 180 grs the .308 will do anything that can be expected of the .30/06. Once the bullet weight exceeds 180 grs however, the '06 is the better bet, and I have ammo currently loaded with bullet weights up to 240 grs for ours. It could be argued that anything that can be reasonably expected from a .30 caliber rifle can be accomplished with a 165 gr TSX, but I wouldn't like to limit myself to that extent. The reputation of the 220 gr round nose in African approaches that of the .375, but hunters around the world tend to exaggerate the effectiveness of their favorite cartridges and minimize the effectiveness of the next guys.
If the rifle you want is available in both .308 and .30/06 I would suggest you get the '06. If you opt for the .308, you still have a fine cartridge suitable for a broad range of game.
If you never shoot bullets that weigh more than 180 grs the .308 will do anything that can be expected of the .30/06. Once the bullet weight exceeds 180 grs however, the '06 is the better bet, and I have ammo currently loaded with bullet weights up to 240 grs for ours. It could be argued that anything that can be reasonably expected from a .30 caliber rifle can be accomplished with a 165 gr TSX, but I wouldn't like to limit myself to that extent. The reputation of the 220 gr round nose in African approaches that of the .375, but hunters around the world tend to exaggerate the effectiveness of their favorite cartridges and minimize the effectiveness of the next guys.
If the rifle you want is available in both .308 and .30/06 I would suggest you get the '06. If you opt for the .308, you still have a fine cartridge suitable for a broad range of game.
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